Hey, i have read the board for a while, and have finally decided to post.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
im curious about the choker,
i got my dog 6 months ago from a local animal shelter, i researched my breed what i wanted a dog for etc.. and i supposedly got a collie crossbreed. My dog was 4months at that time and they asked me to a few things before bringing him home one of which was training lead and check-chain. They taught me the wrong/right way to put it on and i use the net a lot and have researched it further. Anyways he walked perfectly on the lead for the week or so until we got him to training and were told we didn't need the choker on a young dog, which sounds about right. We got to the stage of having a really solid recall and trusted him off lead, but recently he has not been so good at coming back, no biggy so he's been walking on the lead a lot recently. My mother, sister and younger cousins have previously used a head halti but i dont really like them that much but he is starting to pull recently and so were contemplating the choker again,

im just curious as to whether these are bad for his neck as he is only 9months old and whether we should just continue with the normal lead and flat collar, ive seen the pinch collars talked about on this site a lot and will think about getting one. but i want to know about chokers and whether or not there dangerous for him.

thanks a bunch in advance for any replys
Oli

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i do not intend to use the choke for everyday use anyone that does that is insane IMO,

this is purely to get him back into line when out walking,

the last time i used it i did not have to check him hard at all and i think i used the choker 3 times and it solved the problem straight away

but if the prong is much safer maybe i shall try it

im very gratefull you posted your opinion, i would like people to do that in this thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

im not dillusional and have read on the internet about the damage chokers can cause, do you think this is true for people who know how to use them or is the damage just caused by those who dont?

only on sunday i saw a dog straining at the end of his choker pulling against the owner and the owner then tried to give him a check, such poor use of a dangerous tool in my eyes

ty for replying <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> any others?

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......this is purely to get him back into line when out walking, ....
......have read on the internet about the damage chokers can cause, do you think this is true for people who know how to use them or is the damage just caused by those who dont?.....

There are times when the choke chain is needed, IMO. But for this young dog who's pulling on a walk, the pinch collar will be perfect. That's my experience (long experience with pet dogs).

I'm inclined to reserve the choke for situations when it's actually needed. I too would like to hear more from others.

Totally agree. I used a leather collar or slip collar when my younger GSD was very young, then a prong when he got larger. He is excellent on lead now, so we are back to the leather collar. He also wears an e-collar when off-lead in the country or at night, to prevent crittering. I never used a choke chain on him.

My other dog is very dog aggressive, and I have used a dominant dog collar with great success with her, but never used it for obedience. I trained her on general obedience using the prong, and while adjusting her attitude towards other dogs, I walked her with two leads and two collars, prong and choke, or leather and choke. Now she is walked on a leather collar, with e-collar for back-up.

I personally don't like choke chains. They cause damage to the neck. I prefer prongs and IMO they are more effective. I would chose a prong over a choke any day.

I just need to mention this one little thing here, collars, harness, and leashes do NOT stop pulling on lead. Training does. The dog needs to be trained to heel, that's when it will finally well....HEEL. If you intend on buying a prong collar to stop the dog from pulling, A)you are wasting your time, B)you are wasting your money.

However, if you are going to take the time to train the dog to heel, I would only use a prong collar. But a dog CAN be trained to heel using only a flat collar, you will need to correct much harder, but it can be done.

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But a dog CAN be trained to heel using only a flat collar, you will need to correct much harder, but it can be done.

Yeah it can be done but it kinda defeats the purpose of not using a choke chain then, as your just yanking the dog around like a maniac (growing your muscles into the bargain) anyway, possibly causing muscle/neck damage, not in the same manner as the choke but think about it for a minute....where does the edge of the flat leather collar go when you correct to the max?

Make life easy on yourself and the females in your family to train this dog to walk by your side, get a prong.

In addition to the prong you should be teaching the dog the position you expect from him at this time as well.

Walk with a large hotdog in your left hand and dog at your side nibbling the hotdog saying good heel or close or whatever takes your liking. If your dog is not food motivated then use a toy he's nuts over or do it before you feed him (should almost always be the case anyway).

HTH

John

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But a dog CAN be trained to heel using only a flat collar, you will need to correct much harder, but it can be done.

Not necessarily. I trained my GSD to heel on a prong collar, then switched to a flat collar. When she is corrected with the flat collar (a correction that will physically move her back to my side) it puts her into drive and while she is animated and looks pretty, she pulls much harder and this escalates to a point where her heeling is gorgeious (about 2 feet in front) but I cannot use the flat collar to correct her.

I read in Purely Positive Training by Sheila Booth that a dog that is not accustomed to flat collar correction will sense the tightness of the leash and collar as reinforcement. I believe this is what is happening with my dog.

Anyway, I use both prong and flat collar on 2 leashes to try to get a balance between animated and in the correct position. I do use a chain collar occassionally (hoping for AKC obedience here) but I do not use it for corrections.

Anyway, for the original poster:

In my very unscintific "study," I took two ripe canteloupes and fitted one with a prong collar and one with a chin collar and corrected them several times. The photo speak for themselves.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/8092/canteloupechain6kx.jpg


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6172/canteloupeprong0av.jpg

If a dog is straining at the end of the choke collar, yes it will cause damage. I have a dog that was handled like that and has damage to her trachea. IF the dog is not straining at the end of the leash and the collar is used occassionally, not too much problem there.

I still prefer the prong collar as I feel that it is safer for the dog in the hands of a less experienced or inexperienced trainer.

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But a dog CAN be trained to heel using only a flat collar, you will need to correct much harder, but it can be done.

Well, if you are going to correct the dog, why not make it easier for you and the dog. I think my dog would prefer a slight correction on the prong then yanking him around all day. But I agree, training tools such as the prong are meant to help you control your dog, not train. you must teach a dog what you want and once it knows a command THEN you correct.