I wish to apologise if I have placed my first!!! post on the board, under the incorrect forum. But as I have purchased this particular training tape from Leerburg (which arrived in record time to the land "downunder)-thankyou!!)I am taking the liberty of saying hi at this stage and giving a little background.

I am an amateur (we are all amateurs)field retriever trainer focusing on labradors. Our retriever trials are conceptually similar to US AKC field trials, thus my past trips to the US, where I observed an Amateur National, weekend field trials and weekend hunt tests. I have also organised US professional trainers to hold seminars in Australia, as the breakdown of training drills and concepts marry up to our requirements very well.

My interest in training in drive, resulted from owning a labrador who had intermitent hard mouth problems with wet pigeons. Which has since been cured training in drive.

Anyway, Hi to all.

Aussie, er I mean Julie. I came to post my first question on this forum, and there you are! I live in Brookings, South Dakota, and like Julie - I have an interest in applying these methods to Retriever Hunt Test and Field Trial Training. I just got the Flinks Building Drive & Focus DVD and have watched it twice now. I know I'll have to view it many more times. And I'm sure I'll have many questions for you all, one of which I'll post in another thread.

Julie, can you imagine us discussing this stuff in the open at RTF?

Hi Dave. It was due to your suggestion, I finally posted.

I have never been keen on compulsion methods with training a good prospect.

I have visited a couple of pure positive sites, which.........well.........I am not a cookie trainer, as I feel corrections have their place, once an exercise has been taught and proofed.

I am so hoping for further input regarding the sequence of training using genetic drive for field labradors, especially when trying to achieve high standards (at our sometimes silly dog games/competitions)with a well thought out program.

When I started to use the ball on the string, with an older dog, I was not convinced the dog would eventually prefer it over a bird or bumper.

Just like when I was concerned with young pups coordination while working in drive. It became clear to me, how coordinated the baby pups were, as they chased an item, LOL.

I hesitated to post, due to the fact of embarassing myself on a public forum, but ..........no more. My level of thinking like a dog has grown so much as a result of why why why they do as they do, I hesitate no more!!!!!

you want to know what's kind of freaky to me? first, that you are so close to me (i'm near sioux city, IA), and second, that i have a sister in KS City who's REALLY into Labs, and field trials.

she and her husband have 3: a coming 3-yr old male, they just bought a 15-month old female this spring, and a (beautiful) female pup they bought last fall. oh-yellow, black and black, if that matters.

i guess now i'll have to find out how they do the send-away. i do know they send the dogs away for the initial training, then continue it themselves, and trial. obviously i need to quiz little sister a bit more!!

their dogs are *real* hunting dogs, i know that for a fact. anyway, it is kinda cool that i'm in between brookings and kansas city, etc., etc...if you want to hook up w/sister, let me know; i'll act as a go-between for a minute...

Hi Ann, us retriever folk call send aways - blind retrieves.

When training in public areas (which I rarely use/prefer featureless fields or what we call paddocks), pet owners ask me if I am training for sheep dog competitions, I suppose due to the whistle and arm/body casts/directions we utilise, LOL.

I can feel, another trip to the US coming on, in the not too distant future.

come this fall--the pheasant/duck/goose hunting is pretty awesome in this part of the country!!

Ann,

 Quote:

you want to know what's kind of freaky to me? first, that you are so close to me (i'm near sioux city, IA), and second, that i have a sister in KS City who's REALLY into Labs, and field trials.

Yep, only a couple hours away. I work with a pro who is in Burbank, SD near Vermillion. He's very close to you guys.

 Quote:

she and her husband have 3: a coming 3-yr old male, they just bought a 15-month old female this spring, and a (beautiful) female pup they bought last fall. oh-yellow, black and black, if that matters.

If they bought a 15 month old dog, they are likely buying a started dog - big money, that shows that they are serious. Although buying a started dog can be cheaper than starting puppies (especially if your importing them to Australia from the USA, right Julie? LOL). At least you can evaluate talent once they are started. I have one yellow and have a black puppy coming in late July. I'm sure your sister and her husband would like this one:

http://www.gooddoginfo.com/gdc/asp/viewpedigree.asp?DogNo=81978

 Quote:

i guess now i'll have to find out how they do the send-away. i do know they send the dogs away for the initial training, then continue it themselves, and trial. obviously i need to quiz little sister a bit more!!

Like Julie said, in field games, we call this a blind retrieve. They can range out to 300-450 yards to a planted bird.

 Quote:

their dogs are *real* hunting dogs, i know that for a fact. anyway, it is kinda cool that i'm in between brookings and kansas city, etc., etc...if you want to hook up w/sister, let me know; i'll act as a go-between for a minute...

I wouldn't mind knowing their names. I'd probably recognize it, but you should do that by private message. They should only have their names on the net by choice I figure. I bet they teach blind retrieves the same way I do. By looking into this stuff, I am looking for some alternatives that could produce better results than force training, or at least compliment it. Don't get me wrong, I have the belief that some dogs might be better trained in drive, while others may not have enough drive for anything but force to work. Those are probably dogs that shouldn't be bred for field work.

Thanks,
Dave

 Quote:

Hi Dave. It was due to your suggestion, I finally posted.

I am so hoping for further input regarding the sequence of training using genetic drive for field labradors, especially when trying to achieve high standards (at our sometimes silly dog games/competitions)with a well thought out program.

When I started to use the ball on the string, with an older dog, I was not convinced the dog would eventually prefer it over a bird or bumper.

Just like when I was concerned with young pups coordination while working in drive. It became clear to me, how coordinated the baby pups were, as they chased an item, LOL.

I hesitated to post, due to the fact of embarassing myself on a public forum, but ..........no more. My level of thinking like a dog has grown so much as a result of why why why they do as they do, I hesitate no more!!!!!

I'm still working to see if Ace can get to the point where he views a ball with the same enthusiasm as a live wing flapping bird. And like you, I've wondered about puppy coordination. I'm wondering is this drive and focus work is something I should start working on right after I pick up my pup at the airport at 8 weeks old?

I'm glad I convinced you to come out. I've been wishing you would talk more openly about what you're up to. Don't know how much response we'll get on here. Folks might think we're crazy doing those foolish retriever games. But I guess the folks on RTF would think we're nuts too - pretty set in their ways and methods.

hey dave,
vermillion's only about 20 min from me (thanks to the new bridge!!). if you want, i'll check w/sister, see if she wants to hook up w/you (don't see why not, but...). let me check w/her and i'll pm you or something when she gets back to me.

yes, they really are into starting out right in the breeding end. their male, drake, has passed (i think) his first level of field trials. sister mostly trials (missouri/ks) b/c Jeff is out of country w/US Army--but jeff seems to get home for at least SOME hunting <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

they're trying to finalize a deal on a new property outside of town w/ a couple ponds on it, but it's slow w/jeff OOC. i'll check w/her tomorrow, see if i can't hook you guys up. her baby puppy is SO pretty!

ttyl,
ann

I'm not crazy, just possessed, LOL.

Yank has cost $$$$ (and stress) to import. I did not fly over before importing him, simply trusted his carer and his pedigree (and his health clearances- Penn hip, elbow, CERF x 2, PRA, CNM). Time was well spent obtaining physical health clearances due to the "rabies" delay. All this for a dog who was primarily purchased as a training/trial prospect not as a stud prospect.

I suppose my number one question remains, why why why have some retriever "people", stayed a little in the dark ages, regarding modern canine behaviour? All other canine endeavours seem to have moved from the previous force application. The day force helps with the dogs marking/memory abilities (fighting the factors another topic) is the day I will re-evaluate my methods. <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Finally back to the subject at hand. With youngsters I found the side bonuses of sitting straight, for their rewards, sitting quickly, and general obedience soooooooo easy. Just a blessing also to start with youngsters before poor habits occur. Nevertheless bad habits can be changed, me being a perfect example!!!