For personal protection training, at what point do you stop running the circle with the sleeve and stop running the sleeve off the field? What qualities or goals does the dog need to achieve before it can remove this aspect of training?
why??? this is where the dog wins. he's bigger and badder than the bad guy. confidence builder. i don't understand why you'd want to take this away from him. if you do, there will be no joy in the work.
if there are no dogs in heaven, then when i die i want to go where they went. ---will rogers
I am referring to personal protection, not sport. The dog should eventually learn that the instant the sleeve slips, it spits out the sleeve and re-alerts on the man. If you don't eliminate running the circle or running the sleeve off the field, imagine this in a self-defense situation....Someone breaks into your house while you are asleep. Your dog goes in for the bite. The intruder has a jacket on and it slips off as the dog attempts to bite. The dog takes the jacket and runs off with it because his what it has done a thousand times in training. Now the intruder keeps coming towards you. The dog keeps holding onto the jacket because you are asleep and cannot give it the "out" command.
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
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Mike,
Then I'll ask the question that I always do - are you planning to be attacked by someone wearing a sleeve?
If the dog is carrying a sleeve and running in a circle, you're training for sport. If you're using a sleeve you're training for sport.
Personal protection is trained with hidden sleeves and muzzles.
You've got sort of the right idea about the carrying having no use in PPD's, but you're still sport training. You and your trainer need to re-evaluate your training plan if PP is your major goal.
Michael, When you feel that the grips are good and full you can begin to teach the out and from there you can expose him to different bite surfaces (undersleeve). Even when you have the decoy slip the sleeve have your decoy re-agitate the dog when he drops the sleeve. Don't let him regrip the sleeve. See if you can get the dog to pursue the decoy (on leash) away from the sleeve and remain focused on the man.
Remember that just about every sport dog (schutzhund) that has been switched to a psd had its foundation biteworkd done in a manner that you have described. The dog has to become focused on the man and not the sleeve. Civil agitation will become a big part of your routine.
Originally posted by Will Rambeau: Then I'll ask the question that I always do - are you planning to be attacked by someone wearing a sleeve?
If the dog is carrying a sleeve and running in a circle, you're training for sport. If you're using a sleeve you're training for sport.
Personal protection is trained with hidden sleeves and muzzles.
You've got sort of the right idea about the carrying having no use in PPD's, but you're still sport training. You and your trainer need to re-evaluate your training plan if PP is your major goal. Will, how do you train a PP puppy?? you put a six month old pup on a hidden sleeve? or do you start in muzzles?
Based on the cross over training experiences that I had, I would never use a hard sleeve in the foundation work of a Police dog or PP dog. I would go from tug to leg sleeve to suit work. This method allows the pup to learn targeting from all angles. Sleeve trained dogs can be crossed over easy enough but the imprinting is always in their head to search out the arm. I just don't like that. Many KNPV dogs have never seen a hard sleeve.
Matthew Grubb Webboard User Reg: 09-27-2002
Posts: 637
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
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There is no reason you can't work a PPD or PSD on a hard sleeve. Once you work that first bite on a hidden sleeve, the dog knows what he's working with and you might as well go back onto the sleeve or a suit.
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