I have been banging my head into a wall trying to figure out the rhyme or reason to Gunnar's "itchiness". I've posted before and gotten help w/ideas. His paws itch randomly yet fairly consistently, he get's exercise every day without fail so I know it's not lack of exercise causing it. We've tried all the antibiotics, antihistamines, shampooing, prednisone, hypoallergenic food, etc. He's still on the diet but there is something not right. He stops for days at a time and then itches like crazy for days at a time then back to being ok, etc. We're looking at contact allergies too. But here's my question...Cesar Millan said something on his show last night and a light bulb went off over my head. He was talking about the 3 Hurricane Katrina dogs he watched over for 3 months and how they needed to be neutered because (and here's the connection) an unneutered male dog walks around all day saying, "I have to mate, I have to mate, I have to mate. And this causes frustration". OK, I've paraphrased but that was the gist of it.

Has anyone had any experience with a young, unneutered male who has NOT been bred and, if so, is it possible that my failing to neuter him to date (he's just 17 months) could be causing him to want to bang his head into a wall <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and instead is choosing to lick his paws??

Any thoughts or do I just sound crazy? And to save people trouble - the dog is NOT stressed. Unless you use that term in the same was as frustration, then OK but the way I use "stress", I do not see them as meaning the same thing.

By "the diet," do you mean an elimination diet? A novel-protein, limited-ingredient diet? A hypoallergenic food made from denatured grain protein?

Food is the least common of all canine allergies. Excellent food can help the immune system deal with all allergies, however (IMO).

Seasonal environmental/inhalant canine allergies, which are just as seasonal and unpredictable as people's seasonal allergies (and just as subject to plant blooming, wind, etc)., classically manifest in itchy paws.

"We've tried all the antibiotics, antihistamines, shampooing, prednisone, hypoallergenic food, etc." ----- Unfortunately, there are no cures for allergies (yet). It's an auto-immune disorder which can be managed to a great extent but cannot be "cured" without removing from the dog's life all of that individual dog's allergens, if they even are remove-able (which means first identifying them, of course).

Having owned and helped with more than a few severely allergic dogs, I use an everything-that-helps approach, including antihistamines when needed (such as hydroxyzine), always salmon oil and E, very good diet, washing off grass and pollen from the paws when the dog comes back inside, topical remedies for certain things (like yeast), relief sprays if they help the dog, and so on. In the worst cases, during the worst periods for that dog, steroids can help a lot (but are a balancing act between the relief and the side effects). I have also had the skin tests done to ID the allergens and had the lab make up the desensitizing injections for three dogs to date, each time with varying success, but so far always some success at least.

That last is expensive, and required that I learn to give the injections (on a gradually-decreasing schedule).

And yes, dogs with frustrated energy do indeed turn to self- or environmentally-destructive behaviors like paw-licking, too. I haven't read or heard of that particular frustration triggering paw-licking.

So far, it sounds like he is exhibiting a very common symptom of an increasingly common condition: itchy paws from allergic reactions.

Are you planning to neuter him at full growth (knowing that you wouldn't breed a dog with allergies)?

I am 100% sympathetic; allergies are difficult and frustrating, and canine allergies have absorbed a huge amount of my time, energy, research, and money. I think that your continued attempts to try everything and keep going with all the things that help are excellent.

Hey Connie. Yes, I'm going to neuter him at 20 months. I was waiting for that magical Leerburg 20 to 24 mth period giving him access to his hormones as Ed put it somewhere.

You are so right. I'm so frustrated w/this that I'm perhaps grasping at straws. If he were frustrated that would end relatively soon after neutering but from the sounds of your post, it's probably not that <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . UGH!

That skin test idea I thought had relatively little luck so I am happy to see you at least had some luck.

The elimination diet is what I meant. He's on something called "Hill's Prescription Diet Canine z/d Ultra Allergen Free". Do you know anything about it?

It's funny you say that food is the least common. I could swear he's really allergic to the grass but he doesn't react to it in any kind of uniform manner. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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....The elimination diet is what I meant. He's on something called "Hill's Prescription Diet Canine z/d Ultra Allergen Free". Do you know anything about it?

It's funny you say that food is the least common. I could swear he's really allergic to the grass but he doesn't react to it in any kind of uniform manner. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

That food is made with denatured protein (hydrolyzed animal protein, in that particular one).

An elimination diet is what I refer to as real food (I mean "as is" food, found in nature, as opposed to denatured or hydrolyzed proteins) of limited and novel (to that individual animal) ingredients; allergies develop after repeated exposure, so the dog isn't allergic to something he has never eaten.

It's not that "I say" food allergies are the least common. I mean, it's not my experience I'm quoting; it's generally accepted vet lit that flea allergy is number one, inhalant/environmental is number two, and food is a distantly-trailing number three. But many allergic animals have all three types, and food is something that's very constant, as well as relatively simple to eliminate the allergens in, and good food helps the immune system anyway, so food for me is a focus, no matter where it is in the allergy lineup.

It's just that so many people seem to assume automatically that it's a food allergy, ignoring the most likely problems.

Grasses have seasons and life cycles; allergies to grasses are as sporadic and cyclic in dogs as in humans.

The skin tests are not 100% perfect, but are much better than the blood tests.

Many people don't do the skin tests for valid reasons (aside from cost, also valid): most vets don't do them and have to refer them to a specialist, and many owners refuse to shave the dog for the tests.

But the success rate (at ID-ing the allergens) is usually said to be a very high (compared to everything else) 75% or better.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&articleid=504
describes the procedure pretty well.

From what you say about your dog's atopy, you might well hit on the right combination of fish oil and Vitamin E (which I believe is a keystone in treating the inflammation of allergies), possibly antihistamine, maybe topical aids, and keeping him cleaned off when the pollen count is high, maybe steroids in the lowest effective doses at his worst times....... you may never have to go the route of testing and desensitizing.

I'm not a health professional. All JMO.

You say you are exercising him... what are you doing and for how long?

Cesar recommends a walk of NO less than an hour a day. At 17 months I think the puppy should be able to handle it -- walks are relatively low-intensity, you aren't biking or running on pavement or anything. You could also look into using a weighted backpack for extra intensity if you do not have enough time on your hands. This may help with the frustration you describe.

Yep, there's nothing like giving a working breed some job to do & carrying a weighted backpack on walks is work for a dog, both physically & psychologically <:-)

Candi, do you know who makes a good backpack?

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Yep, there's nothing like giving a working breed some job to do & carrying a weighted backpack on walks is work for a dog, both physically & psychologically <:-)

But not puppies....... just a reminder! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have used some water water bottles on a backpack with my adult GSD, though, with good hips and good joints. I liked the idea.

We adopted a male, altered 3yr. old bichon/poodle mix about 2mos. ago, & he was licking his paws incessently. I couldn't figure out why...I'm not an expert on dog care, & as luck would have it, my daughter was visiting, & she is a kienesologist. (sp) She also has 2 beagles, so I draw on her experience. Anyway, she figured out, he must have walked in some lawn/garden fertilizer when we went on one of our morning walks. She recommended giving him a bath in baking soda, then use regular shampoo, & give him only the baking soda bath in a couple of days. I couldn't believe it but w/in a couple of weeks as the toxins left his body, he stopped the licking. We live in the country & there are no sidewalks. But there are a few homes where we do walk.

And we're not familiar w/the folks who do/don't use fertilizers. I guess I'll have to be more careful & let him "nose" around only in the vacant lots & wooded areas..

I'm not really familiar w/food allergies concerning pets, but do wish you the best in handling all that. I had an un-neutered male dog at one time, and he didn't lick his paws, if that helps at all..

Hugs & Blessings;
Fifth

My last dog I had was a Husky/Austrailian Shepherd cross, unaltered and he licked his paws...well more like his front leg just above the paw. It wasn't incessent, and he never did it when I was home...he had a habit of licking it when I wasn't home...he did have some episodes of seperation anxiety (howling when I left & stuff like that). I do know that it got worse when he had severly sprained (for lack of a better word) his paw after jumping over a log chasing a squirrel. I couldn't exercise him like I usually did for about 2 weeks, and the licking definately got worse then.
But it did slowly diminish as he got older, and he never did it when I was around.