Dear Mr. Frawley,

Thank you so much for a great web-site. I’ve enjoyed the E-collar Training DVD very much!

I have a 2 ½ year old GSD who has great parentage. Father is a SchH3 and IPO3 and his mother has her UKC-AG1 and CD; AKC-CD and other misc. titles: several CPE titles, AKC CGC and BH. I really have a very good boy and am very pleased with his breeding. He is very bright with a tremendous prey drive. There are no aggression or possessiveness issues. He is very visually oriented and cautious and is a ‘talker’ like the dog used in the Leave-it demonstration on your DVD. He was 12 weeks old when we got him and went to puppy class that did click, treat, turn your back and used halti’s (he hated the halti) This class gave us a nice gentle foundation. From there, we did some private classes to help with him pulling me. That’s when we were introduced to the prong collar. He did much better on the prong collar and Loved this instructor. She couldn’t take us any further with his training so the process of looking for another trainer started again. I found someone locally who is well known and has had experience in training GSD’s. This person is a very dominant man and literally scared the poop out of my dog in a training session. There was no aggression shown by my dog in any way. In one class session he introduced me to the E-collar to do off leash training. I am using a Dogtra 200 that I’m thrilled with. I am able to use the pager (vibration) on him to get his attention, or at #22 or less setting. (No yelping.) Here is what I’ve been doing with the E-collar on him.

1. Set yard boundaries. The yard is about 1 acre unfenced. He has never broken the boundaries I’ve set for him and has not confused the boundaries with training.

2. Play time with the Frisbee or ball is part of his training with come, down, sit, stay etc.

3. Some walks with his leash dragging on the ground. I keep the leash on so I can pick it up before we get to the houses where dogs have charged at us before.

4. Since viewing your E-collar DVD, I’m using the rabbits and squirrels that are in the yard for ‘distractions’. I’ve followed your instructions on saying ‘no’ if he doesn’t come and a zip if need be. He’s done quite well.

With that said, I’m still working on old bad habits. He will walk nicely by my side (not a perfect heel) then just drifts ahead. When I stop, he just turns around and comes back to my side. Is there any need for a correction? I’ve been told by the last trainer that your dog should never walk ahead of you.

As with most dogs, when the door bell rings he’s barking too long. Do you think I can give him an appropriate amount of barks then tell him No, expect him to be quiet and if he doesn’t be quite give him a zip? Again, I don’t want to overuse the collar, just utilize the collar properly.

He’s too smart to not continue training, what would you recommend or do you have any other suggestions?

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I’m still working on old bad habits. He will walk nicely by my side (not a perfect heel) then just drifts ahead. When I stop, he just turns around and comes back to my side. Is there any need for a correction? I’ve been told by the last trainer that your dog should never walk ahead of you.

I have the same issue with my Dobe. He'll drift ahead, so I'll warn him with a "No." He'll immediately whip his head around to see where I am and come back to me. However, I sometimes find myself saying "no" every 5 steps or so. Since he complies within the 1.5 second "window" I'm not able to issue a leash correction. I'll have to admit that I broke protocol after about 20 "no"s once and administered a level 3 correction during what would have been the 21st "no" and he stopped drifting ahead for a while. I felt guilty that I didn't give him a chance to comply that 21st time, but it really felt like he was pushing the boundary. Was this the correct this to do, or should I have taken a different approach?

If your dog knows his position in the heel and continues to push the boundaries, there is no reason why a stiff correction which he has to respect cant be applied. You are nagging him and all the while he is doing what he wants. To him it is worth enduring the piddly correction to forge ahead. I'm not saying helicopter him or burn him down with the e-collar, but a more respectfull correction is in order.

That being said..I'd rather use focus reward and cause him to WANT to be in the proper heel position. Less stress on both of you. If the food or ball drive isn't there, do what you gotta do.

Howard

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..........He'll drift ahead, so I'll warn him with a "No." He'll immediately whip his head around to see where I am and come back to me. However, I sometimes find myself saying "no" every 5 steps or so.

JMO, I'd rather give a command than say no. Nagging isn't very effective, and I think it might be less clear than a command.

Does the dog understand the word "heel"? If not, I'd probably go back and spend a few days on the basic heel training and on the dog's focus on you (which is sharpened when you vary your speed, change directions, etc.).

Then I would use the command rather than "no."

"Heel" in your command voice is clearer than "no," I think. I try not to whine or sound exasperated or negotiate......... just the command.

I think it helps if your tone for commands is always the same; I try not to give a command in a correction voice, no matter how irritated I might be....... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JMO.

P.S. Editing to say that I'm with Howard about reward and eagerness to comply. Praise and other motivation work really well! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I try to include the good thing in the praise, such as "good heel!" in the happy praise voice. "Good sit" or "good whatever" along with a pat and/or a random treat/toy will reinforce the good behavior, I find, and also will link the command word with happy outcomes.

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..............As with most dogs, when the door bell rings he’s barking too long. Do you think I can give him an appropriate amount of barks then tell him No, expect him to be quiet and if he doesn’t be quite give him a zip? Again, I don’t want to overuse the collar, just utilize the collar properly.

He’s too smart to not continue training, what would you recommend or do you have any other suggestions?

Have you tried training a certain behavior for visitors? After he has alerted you to the approaching visitor, you could give a "sit" command, and praise or randomly reward for it as soon as he does it while he's learning the routine.

I like to give a command when I can, rather than a correction....... giving him a thing to do rather than a thing not to do.

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I like to give a command when I can, rather than a correction....... giving him a thing to do rather than a thing not to do.

That's a very useful reminder, IMO, Connie, for those of us who occasionally(often!) become frustrated by 'unwanted behaviour' <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank you all for your suggestions, I’m so thankful for this forum. I’ve not tried using the zip collar. I’ve been waiting for someone with more experience and training to help me. For the heel issue, I'll go back to the beginning and make sure there hasn't been a miscommunication on my part. As for the barking issue what I have been doing, is when the doorbell rings, his first reaction, of course, is to bark and run to the door. I am telling him to “get back” and he does move back, barking all the way. I’m having trouble keeping him ‘back’ and not running back to the door. When I do finally open the door, if it is a friend, then the ‘Who is it’ barking stops and the ‘it’s my friend’ barking starts. I’ve even thought about throwing his favorite ball (he is a ball nut and not food motivated) down the hall after he moves back as a reward for doing what I’ve just told him, Would trying this be counterproductive? This barking issue is getting very old—please continue to send your suggestions and advice.

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..... As for the barking issue what I have been doing, is when the doorbell rings, his first reaction, of course, is to bark and run to the door. I am telling him to “get back” and he does move back, barking all the way. I’m having trouble keeping him ‘back’ and not running back to the door. When I do finally open the door, if it is a friend, then the ‘Who is it’ barking stops and the ‘it’s my friend’ barking starts. I’ve even thought about throwing his favorite ball (he is a ball nut and not food motivated) down the hall after he moves back as a reward for doing what I’ve just told him, Would trying this be counterproductive? This barking issue is getting very old—please continue to send your suggestions and advice.

Sounds like maybe you don't have a drag line?

If not, I think you might be pleasantly surprised at how much more control you'll have when you use one.

I'd keep one handy and snap it on when someone is approaching, or have it already on when you know someone will be visiting.

Please don't go into hysterics, but what is a drag line and how do I use it? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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Please don't go into hysterics, but what is a drag line and how do I use it? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Here's a drag leash (drag line, drag lead):
http://www.leerburg.com/leashes.htm#drag

It's basically a short lead with no hand-loop (because the dog has it "dragging" and you don't want that loop to trip in) to grab when you need control.

I have also been known to take an old nylon or cotton lead and cut the loop off.