Can the same methods and time frame outlined in Ed's obedience tapes be applied to dogs that are used to hunt? I know some hunting dog trainers advocate less obedience at an early age prevent the dogs idependence in the field to be limited. The argument would be that too much obedience at you age will turn focus of young dog from the job (ie. hunting) to the handler.

I wouldn't think basic obedience training would prevent a hunting dog from doing well in the field as long as the training was geared to the dog's temperament. After all you do want the dog to be obedient in the field as well as showing independence when called for.

Steve - I have a little experience with hunting dog trainers. The people you are talking about fall into my standard saying that goes like this "EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION ON HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DOG - THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO OFFER SOUND ADVICE"

This certainly applies to the people telling you not to train a young dog. There is nothing wrong with motivational training. The people who told you what they did are yank and crank trainers- put too many correction on a young dog and you will have problems.

The same thing going with the way 99% of the hunting dog trainers uses remote collar -which is ESCAPE TRAINING.

Obedience is esential to to a good dog. Whether it is at the House or in the Field. My family has had field ESS's since I can remember. The basics such as a sit, down, recall, and in the case of a field dog the "load up". If you are using a flushing dog you need to teach the dog to keep in close while quartering. This is best with the "too far" command or such. While each trainer/handler will have their own commands for what they want out of the dog... you still need OB. Teaching at a young age doesn't need to take the drive out of them... with food and toy motivation it can actually enhance the drives. Doesn't need to be perfect... but you'll be happy when your hunting buddies talk about how you have a great finished dog that listens and works, while they have a wild animal that just runs loose and will respond only with an Ecollar.

Good luck and Happy hunting!

Is there a place I can go to read more up on the field commands of bird dogs?

Thanks in advance,

Having had both types I think that it really depends on the breed of hunting dog, and what exactly you want out of it. My experience is limited to the more aggressive, harder VDD lines of Drahthaar (German Wired Haired Pointer), I know, I know, to even place those 2 words in the same sentence will get you lynched in a Drahthaar crowd, but the dogs are of the same stock originally. Anyway, I would venture to say that my Drahthaars, males and females were no less emotionally durable than my current GSD male, who is what most folks would term a "medium" temperment.
I have had a few German Shorthaired pointers and the males I had were fairly "hard" critters, meaning they could take correction that a brittany is not going to do well under.
The real point being here that although I don't see a problem with it, I would limit the applications of the obedience to a few items, such as COME, and DOWN/STAY, and other things that have something to do with actually living with the dog day to day. Other than that I reccomend putting him in the field, on birds as much as humanly possible for the 1st year. Get those drives, and instincts primed and revved up, and THEN come back and work on control. IF you miss those initial learning times you simply can not replace drives not developed. Better to have alot to work with than not having enough to work with.

 Quote: Lauren Fitzgerald

Is there a place I can go to read more up on the field commands of bird dogs?

Thanks in advance,

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/trov.html

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/whoa.html

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/come.html

http://www.thecheckcord.com/archives/heel.html

Thanks, Connie!

Stick with Ed's articles & videos !!! Use positive-motivation-only training during the learning phase of obedience lessons & be sure to use his e-collar DVD to train your dog for offlead field work <:-)

I put absolutely zero obedience into trail and bay dogs. things like load up and here, they'll figure out and it's not necessary for their disciplines.

Bird dogs depending on how you intend to use them require from a moderate amount to a substantial amount of training. I had a friend who's chessy would point, spot, and retrieve and also had perfect obedience with whistle guidance. A lot of what those dogs do is obedience, it's just not the conventional excercises. Some of the whistle work you get into with retrievers can be much more demanding than traditional obedience.

With Catch dogs some obedience is also vital, but you must use motivation there as well. As others mentioned keep in mind the temperment of your dog when doing the correction and proofing phase. Some gun dogs are very soft and can be run off in the field never to be seen again.