Hello All,
I know this is more than likley a crazy question but is there any difference in a Show Sch 3 title and a Working line Sch 3 title? I see many post where folks are questioning if there dog is a show line or working line dog. Maybe I am just so new to all of this that I am just wondering if there is any difference in like drive. I have never seen where the requirements are different and was wondering if maybe they score a working dog differently than a show dog? I know that a show dog may be titled but just barley got the title with his scores that could also apply to a working line dog though as well, but got the drive and temperment to get the scores in the first place. Can some of the folks out there tell me the difference?
Curious Minds want to know.
Thx,
Jay

I'm not a Sch. expert, but on the "is there any difference in like drive" part of your question, the practical, short answer that I feel qualified to give is a very loud YES! Huge differences in drives/temperament can be seen, both on the field and in the house. For example, my personal working-line GSD does not sleep. Not kidding or exaggerating (although I know he must sleep sometimes...), he paces 24/7 unless he's absolutely worn out from not just physical exercize, but mental stimulation as well. When he's worn out, he paces maybe 22/7. He cannot help himself when it comes to the cats, birds, etc.

A coworker of mine breeds very nice, highly titled German showlines. These dogs are much easier to have in the house; I couldn't believe the difference. I knew they existed, but I am so used to the way my dog behaves that seeing hers was nothing short of shocking. They actually acted like normal housepets...friendly to guests, not wanting to chase anything that moved, and actually napped. My dog is very well-trained; I don't want to give the wrong impression-these are just genetic traits that are always going to be there. All you can do is work on control, so that they don't actually DO everything that their drives tell them they want to. Like I said, I have never owned a showline, nor am I any kind of Sch. expert, but I hope my point of view and personal experience with just one aspect of the differences helps a little.

I would never trade my dog, and I intentionally chose working lines, but I must admit that SOMETIMES, it would be nice to see my dog with his ears relaxed and his eyes closed.

jay, i think people get into trouble when they try to pigeonhole anything; this includes dogs, but is certainly not limited to them. most generalizations do not allow for any individuality. two common generalizations that occur with gsds are that show dogs can't work and working dogs are ugly. ridiculous! we all know of examples where these generalizations do not hold true. the sad thing is that some folks actually believe it and are so convinced that they are right that they will use any and all examples that prove their point to say, "aha....see, i was right." on the flip side of the coin, i think we have all seen examples of working dogs that can't work and show dogs that are ugly as sin.
in regards to your question, in order to achieve a title, the dog must earn enough points or the title is not awarded. now, that is not to say that all trials are fair. they're not. some judges are clearly biased and some dogs receive titles at small, backyard trials that ensure the dogs of a title. take a look at where the dog has trialed, who judged the trials and what the resulting scores were. if the dog has consistently trialed at well known clubs, under experienced judges and has scored well throughout, then chances are that the dog has ligitimately earned his titles. that has nothing to do with being a workingline or a showline dog. he earned the points. period.

One of the (few) things the AKC does right is requiring a dog to get 3 qualifying scores under 3 different judges to earn an obedience title. Makes it harder to get a title because you got lucky once, or your brother is married to the judge. In Schutzhund that would make it financially and otherwise very difficult for Americans/Canadians, but I wonder why they couldn't do it in Germany, where I've heard there's a Schutzhund trial near you on any weekend. Might improve the breed a bit.

Patricia, that is so true, and Anita great point.
Jenni you are so right when you say that showline are easier to live with to a point cause if you give a dog enough stimulation through out the day all dogs should be fine in the house.It all depends.But I see you rpoint too.
My view on the whole thing is we always talk about the dogs showline/working line but what about the handlers, the lousy ones that may make a great showline look bad or a great working line look bad .It's a bit of a combo to me.I have seen dogs change hands from a good handler to a bad one and the dog looked horrible when before he looked great.I am not saying it's the reason for all bad dogs but they do go hand in hand. Hey I like both lines. I always look at the hanlders when I buy an older dog , that tells me what to expect in that dog later on, Not for everything but it sure intells what the dog will do on the fieldand how he'll look.My female I bought when she was 2 , her retrieve is good but not great , she hates doing that exercise and you see it in her .My male I taught him the retrieve from day one and he loves it, he flighs ,he looks happy.Have I had taught the retrieve work to my female she would have looked the same as my male.A good handler will show the fullpotential of a dog and make him look good and the not so good handlers will only show half.

Angelique, there's a big difference between "fine in the house" and relaxed and quiet, though, isn't there, lol? My male is "fine" in the house-meaning he doesn't ruin my stuff or kill the cats (although he would love to), but he is a bit annoying at times, pacing continually. Clickety-clack on the wood floors. I keep his nails short, lol!I didn't know before I got him, but apparently his grandfather is known for throwing the pacing gene...or at least that's what others have told me.

I guess it's the level of alertness that seems to be the biggest difference. It will at times appear that he's resting, but if I move a muscle, he's up and fully alert. Often I long for a dog who continue to nap while I walk by...He is constantly on edge, waiting and watching, poised and ready for someone to make a wrong move, while the showlines I know are calmer and less suspicious, although I've seen some get quite protective when warranted. It seems that they're less edgy and suspicious in general; this side maybe comes out only when provoked, whereas in working lines it's the other way around. Kinda seems like if we MUST generalize, with showlines you're innocent until proven guilty and with SOME working lines, you're guilty until proven innocent, although I really do hate to pigeonhole...

You're right, too, when you say handlers are soooo important to these generalizations. A handler providing proper stimulation should be able to have either type in the home (not necessarily unsupervised). My points are to be taken as 2 dogs raised in the same home, reacting on genetic impulses only, if that makes any sense at all...

Yes, I know what you meant by being in the house thing, my dogs are like that you think they are in s deep sleep when really they are waiting for you to make a move.I always find myself with all 3 inthe bathroom (including my 2 year old).One time my husband came home and found no one home (so he thought) so he walked back out thinking I had walked to the park with the dogs and kid when really we were in the upstairs bathroom all 6 of us.
(4 dogs and1 kids and me)Ok I'm off the subject , so anyways when I take them for a run they seem more relaxed and don't need to follow 100% of the time,to every room.But I know working line are ALWAYS ready to go but I have to say my showline was so much of the same.To me it's about the life style of the dog and the dog itself I don't know if it's so much of the lineage, but i'm no expert..

Angelique,

hahaha that bathroom line is so funny. My two older dogs have to be in the bathromm with me no matter what. WhiteGSD not working line but they do follow me every where. I have learned to love it. Man I need to work more and stay off the web.

STEVE

Well, I have a German/American showline and he's much like you described in that, any move I make, he jumps up and waits to see which way I'm headed. He's on full alert from about 7:00 AM to 10 PM. He doesn't pace like Jenni's dog (thank God ) and he does sleep during the night in our bedroom w/the door open for him to change his mind if he wants. He always stays upstairs during the night and is quiet 9 out of 10 nights. So when he is up and barking at night, it means something is really out there, not just some chipmunk. So unlike Jenni's dog, he does turn it down a notch during the night which I really like! And if I don't exercise him (run him) twice a day/he lets me know it. He gets very antsy. That's in addition to 1 or 2 long walks every day.

So, I guess you could say he's a bit of a couch potato because he'll nap during the day after his exercise.

 Quote: AnitaGard

One of the (few) things the AKC does right is requiring a dog to get 3 qualifying scores under 3 different judges to earn an obedience title. Makes it harder to get a title because you got lucky once, or your brother is married to the judge. In Schutzhund that would make it financially and otherwise very difficult for Americans/Canadians, but I wonder why they couldn't do it in Germany, where I've heard there's a Schutzhund trial near you on any weekend. Might improve the breed a bit.

Anita,
The AKC may require three qualifying legs per OB title, but the titles are *so* much easier than a SchH title that it's not really a valid comparison.