Biz - 16 month intact male. Had him a month 1/2 now. Gabbi 16 month is the dominate one. Biz is very shy and cautious, scared or shys away from new things. If Gabbi walks over to where he is, he gets up and moves. If he has some toy or bone and Gabbi gets up, he drops it and walks away.
Here's the scenario.
He and Gabbi are outside. They had been playing outside for 3 hours. My male friend came over and didn't take his beenie or sunglasses off a very intimidating looking dark complected guy. Gabbi always barks at him and then recognizes him after a few minutes. She has always been skittish around him. The last few times I have brought her to him, make her sit and she calms down, gets excited and acts like she's known him for years.

We went out to the patio and I grabbed Gabbi's collar and was bringing her to him. He was just standing there and Biz, who was shy of him in the past & ended up licking him, went around us and nipped his sweatshirt sleeve. I had no clue he would do that, I thought he was going to sniff him, as in the past. My friend says he bit him, I say it was a nip. Regardless, I told him "NO" and he backed off, he came around again, I said "NO" and he backed off again, I think he was going to nip his leg but was not close enough to. Hind sight I should have let Gabbi go, but I was still holding on to her since she was the one barking so loudly at him, and grabbed Biz.

We went inside and had the discussion of what happened. He is now worried that Biz is going to bite me. He also thinks Biz knows he got away w/biting him and he'll do it again. I disagreed and said, he backed off when I told him no. He says I should have severely corrected him. Later at work they said he should have been punished to an inch away from suffocating. (K9 handlers)

After my friend left, Biz ran away from me and fled in the crate. I tried to pull him out and he shut down. I was not going to punish him but try to get him out and come to me as I always do when he runs from me. I was using a soft voice and baby talk. The crate moved instead of him. I left him alone for a bit and tried to coaxe him out. I finally got him to come to me, sit and praised the hell out of him, which I hope was the right thing to do.

Should I have choked him out? He's a soft dog. I tell him phooey he slinks down & tail btwn his legs.

I'm don't feel confident enough to answer this question because obviously the results from bad advice could be dangerous. But I think this is an important thing to have answered, and I am very interested to hear what people more experienced with this kind of situation have to say.

Anyone?

Consuelo, why don't you email Ed and ask his advice? I think he'd be the perfect person to address your question.

Yes, I was thinking that too, but I'd really like to hear the response. Will Rambeau would also be a good bet.

Sounds like a fear-biter to me, but I would love to hear what others more in-the-know think.

I am a pet owner, not a trainer. Sounds to me like Biz has weak nerves, and a strong correction would make things worse. Nipping from behind certainly sounds like fear. I don't think he is highly likely to bite you just because he bit your friend. I would train him to keep a reliable down-stay under distraction, or a place command, and expect him to keep away from guests. After someone has been in the house a few minutes, it may be possible to let him greet the guest. I would also work on socialization, get him used to people wearing different clothes, in different locations. etc. He needs to know that you are in control, and will protect him, but I think you will get a better result with positive conditioning then strong corrections in this case.

I have emailed the trainer I have, but she is out of town giving a seminar, I emailed the breeder, but she hasn't written back. I think with all the experience on this board if someone were to give bad advice someone would counter point it w/good advice. Well, that's my hope. I do know I will bring the dog to the person and not the person to the dogs and make sure Biz is on a lead. I still am not sure on the level of correction, and I doubt he will do that again changing the scenario, but who knows. I rarely have visitors and doubt I would have volunteers.
Thanks for replying I've been wondering and figured there'd be "dumb ass" responses.

The good thing about this board, over other boards, is that there is a really low BS factor. Most people will just stay silent if they're not sure or at least say it's only their opinion.

In regards to aggression, I like to remain silent because there are so many variables and it's hard to be able to give an accurate answer based on a snapshot e-mail. Unlike people giving "bad" advice on other topics, doing so on aggression issues could have disasterous results.

Getting an excellent trainer that is familiar with different types of aggression is a great idea...someone that can actually meet the dog in person.

Getting an excellent trainer that is familiar with different types of aggression is a great idea...someone that can actually meet the dog in person.


Outside he is shy but getting better. His tail is not btwn his legs when I stop around people. When someone wants to pet him I give them treats and he is fine. I'm sure it was the house and the trainer I have is really for Gabbi and I go to her. I am going to take Biz to the Oakland dog training club classes. He does know the basic commands and thought it would be better than individual training.

I am a pet owner, not a trainer. Sounds to me like Biz has weak nerves, and a strong correction would make things worse.

That's exactly what I thought!

IMO Bizz , is very unsecure, if your female was barking at your friend while you were holding her and here is Biz loose,feeling the pressure from your female's barking, to react, he felt he needed to handle things and since he is so unsecure , he nipped and was doing it away from behind,from doing a frontal confrontation.You never want to hold your dog from it's collar while a friend of yours is standing there.It causes the dogs to get a bit defensive or overly excited(depends on the dog).If you want your dogs to socialize with your friend do it with one at a time but don't hold from the collar, if your dog is friendly let her/him sniff your friend but have your friend sit not stand, your male Biz sees your female as the alpha and he acting towards her the way he should.But I think you introduced your friend to them in the wrong way.Even though your friend comes over often it never means that your dogs sees him in the same way everytime.I introduce our friends to our dogs as if it was the first time.That's my experience on that, just a thought!