An aquaitance has an 12 mo APBT. The dog lives indoors with a younger PB. The dogs do well together. The older of the two has what appears to be issues with people when he is in the car or on his dog run. By issues he starts to posture and bark at people. The other night (was dark) the dog was on his run when the owner pulled up in the car with her aunt, the dog ran to them barking at the aunt (aunt has only seen the dog 3 times), the aunt approached the barking dog to try and pet him and he bit her. After the bite the dog was kenneled and later was released and treated the aunt as if nothing had happened, in other words he was his happy go lucky self.

Now this woman wants to address this behavior and admits she did not recognize the warning signs, however there is a school of thought of avid PB fanciers that an unprovoked bite from a PB is inexcusable and too large a liability, hence a recommendation to PTS. I agree that a HA PB is not right and should be PTS. I am just not sure that this dog is HA, and I was hoping some of you that are more or less experts at identifying this behavior can shed some light. I would also like to know if there is a hope of rehabilitation of this dog regardless of fear or territorial aggression. I have seen others conquer this problem on this site. I would imagine re-training for strong leadership would be part of the solution here.....I know she is going to have the dogs sight and hearing checked, blood work done as well. A temperment test revealed a positive result.

If this was a dog you were to train what would be your plan forward?

I think we need a bit more info on what the woman was doing when he bit her. I don't know why she would try to pet a barking dog. Was the dog on a long line? Was it a nip or a full on bite? This woman is pretty much a complete stranger to this dog in my eyes. I'm not sure why the owner allowed the dog to be near her aunt since it has been showing signs of behaviour issues.

Kim

I agree w/Kimberly. Yes, I think that a HA APBT is no good, but who in their right mind forces themselves on a barking dog?!? The dog did not chase her down and attack her. The aunt was the one making forward movements. Sounds like he has some anxiety toward people, but I have to honestly say that I don't know that my girl would've been much different in the same situation, ie in a dog run. She's taken on some of my GSD's attitude regarding strangers, and while I don't THINK she'd bite...I don't KNOW that she wouldn't. The aunt made a really stupid mistake, and she shouldn't have been allowed to do it. I never, ever, ever, let ANYONE approach my dogs while they're confined in any way. Territorial aggression is to me, quite different than true HA. If the dog was his "happy-go-lucky self" once introduced, then I wouldn't be in such a hurry to euthanize. JMO.

As an after-thought...if she's not badly wounded, I'd say this was a warning bite due to territory/protective instincts rather than an issue of true HA. I am a bit confused as to where the dog was when this occurred, and that may alter my viewpoint.

The run is a open line that extends from a structure close to the house and anchered away from the house. The line is parallel to the drive way I suppose. The dog was not in a kennel but attached by an extended line that moves freely up and down the anchored line. The dog approached both women as they exited the car, the aunt approached the dog as it ran up the line to them, the dog stopped first and continued to bark...the aunt moved forward to pet the dog. The bite was not a nip, it was a full bite and then he quickly retreated (also not characteristic of a bite and shake that is associated with a PB). The owner admits the error of letting the aunt approach the dog w/o warning her off, so you are both correct regarding that error.

Ohhhhkay. I still say warning bite...since he let go and she still possesses this appendage;-), but now I have a new question. Why the H-E-double hockey sticks do they have a trolley line parallel to the driveway if the dog has people issues???? I still say the line is a factor, based on what I've heard, read, and my own dogs' behavior. I wouldn't call this strike three just yet; maybe this incident will make them more aware and diligent.

 Quote: jenni williams

Ohhhhkay. I still say warning bite...since he let go and she still possesses this appendage;-), but now I have a new question. Why the H-E-double hockey sticks do they have a trolley line parallel to the driveway if the dog has people issues???? I still say the line is a factor, based on what I've heard, read, and my own dogs' behavior. I wouldn't call this strike three just yet; maybe this incident will make them more aware and diligent.

I know this subject is very serious but that was funny....

As for an answer to the question, I can only say after years of owning PBs, she never had one with issues with people and was completely ignorant of the warning signals.

I think the dog can be rehabilitated, I just wish there was a regimant....I think #1 - Go back to basics, Basic Dog Obediance DVD, #2 Dealing w/ Dominant or Aggressive dogs and through out it all A LARGE DOSE OF "NILFF", I wonder how to specifically address the anxiety w/ people, do you keep the dog on a long lead with a prong or e-collar so any issues that trigger bad behavior w/ people may quickly be corrected....I am not sure so I hesitate to recommend. I know I use the e-collar for DA in my girl, because she can take a hell of a correction from a prong, even hanging and when it is all over she reverts to the bad behavior immediately...I guess this makes her a hard dog when it comes to DA behavior - she respects the hell out of a correction from the e-collar, I don't know if this dog is hard or soft, and would he still be considered a pup? Things like that....

I think he's still a pup; I've had PBs who didn't settle into their mature personalities until 2-3...much like GSDs. I think it's possible to rehab this guy, as long as they're willing. It's possible that they missed a lot of previous signs of his anxiety toward people, and that's why he felt as if he was on his own, and therefore made his own decision...the wrong one. They need to be really, really aware of everything he does, b/c often, PBs DON'T show a lot of signs unless you're REALLY watching for them.

 Quote: valerie tietz-kelly

The run is a open line that extends from a structure close to the house and anchered away from the house. The line is parallel to the drive way I suppose. The dog was not in a kennel but attached by an extended line that moves freely up and down the anchored line. The dog approached both women as they exited the car, the aunt approached the dog as it ran up the line to them, the dog stopped first and continued to bark...the aunt moved forward to pet the dog. The bite was not a nip, it was a full bite and then he quickly retreated (also not characteristic of a bite and shake that is associated with a PB). The owner admits the error of letting the aunt approach the dog w/o warning her off, so you are both correct regarding that error.

I will leave the aggression issues to those who are way better qualified than me for comment.

I do want to comment on this dogs "kept" situation. Many years ago (long before Leerburg) I used the type of line you descrube (generally, a high line with a collar connection) for two dogs. One of our dogs nearly died from the experience. IMO, there is just too much that can go wrong with that setup, safety wise.

Now that we are older and wiser, we have a setup where NOBODY can approach our dogs without our direct supervision and control. At minimum, there is a fence between things, even with unexpected visitors.

I don't want to take this thread off track, because I understand and appreciate the orignal post and infomration WRT the bite incident. I'm just not a fan of the *long line overhead* containment approach, and that's just from personal experience.

Beth

I agree with the above comments, this was most likely a territorial type of warning. I understand that your friend didn't "see any signs", but to me a dog holding his/her place and barking is a good enough sign not to allow a stranger to approach. I think not only does the dog need some work, and the owner on obedience, pack behavior, etc, but I think that the owner should learn the proper way to meet dogs if she does not already and teach new people this when approaching her dogs.

What I got from this is that the aunt is inexperienced and chances are did what most people do when greeting a dog. Hand in it's face or on it's head. A raised hand is enough to set off a nervous, wary dog. It's all about body language.

From the sounds of things this dog is not what I'd consider HA, and by no means does this dog need to be PTS. This was human error 100%. Being territorial is human error IMO as well, as this dog shouldnt' feel the need to protect if he has a strong leader and knows his boundaries. I'm not trying to insult, but just being honest.

I really don't think that this dog should be on a line either. Especially if showing territorial aggression. It's asking for problems. What happens if somebody approaches this dog on the line, a child? Sure...it's trespassing, but we ALL know what's going to happen...sue and PTS.

I've dealt with this issue several times with great success through consistent work. It IS very possible to help this dog and owner.

Good luck! Keep us updated :-)