Hello All,
My 10 month old GSD seems to be scratching and itching all the time. I have taken him to the vet 3 times for this at this piont in time and the vet has not been of much help to date. My wife and I have begun a complete elimination diet. At this time we have taken him off of all prepaired treats, removed chicken and beef from his diet and have him fully and completely on lamb and lamb only. This is one thing that we have not feed him to date so we figured we would start here (Very Expensive). I am wondering how long it will be before we begin to see results completely changing his diet if he does have a food type of allerigy. He has had very limited shoots to date following the current protocal. We have been feeding him a combination of RAW and EVO the type with no grain. I am sure that some of his treats did contain grain, so at this time we have completely stopped all food with the exception of lamb. For those of you in the know so to speak can you give me an idea of how long it takes to begin to see results? Max has several places on his body that looks/appears to be a rash, he scratchs all the time and last month I skipped his front line to ensure that was not the issue. He has no fleas and no bites but scratches all the time. So we are in the process of stopping all food intake with the exception of lamb. If this is a food allery how long will it take before he begins to get some relief? Thanks for your responses and we hope this will begin to help him very soon.
Jay
Any ideas on what we may be able to do right now to help him with his itching, we do give him Benadryl and he also has been given a long term or slow acting cortisone shoot as well as two other short acting ones but still is itching like mad. This has been over the past several months. That does not include giving him medicadted baths with two different types of shampoo from the VET.. HELP!!!!

Jay, your poor dog

Since you said it's been going on for months, it's obviously not just dry air in the winter, but I'd still do what I could to get more humidity in the house, can't hurt.

Also you might want to read a bit on this website: http://www.vetinfo.com/ditch.html

A lot is mentioned on that site, some of which you already do. Fish oil is also mentioned (versus flaxseed oil). Does your dog get salmon oil and vitamin E? Can't hurt, can possibly help.

To see results with an elimination diet I think I've heard you'll need to wait 4-8 weeks???? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The one thing that jumps out at me in your post is the baths. Even with a medicated or mild shampoo frequent baths can strip the oil out of a dog's skin, leading to itchy skin. Don't stop until you check with your doctor but I'd ask if it's something that can be put on hold, for a while at least.

Finally, we've heard from owners in our hospital that the topical flea meds aren't working as well as they once did. Maybe fleas are becoming resistant? You might want to reconsider the flea meds and try switching to Advantage or one of the oral monthly pills available. And remember too, in some dogs it takes only 1 flea to start an allergic reaction.

 Quote: sarah_morris

To see results with an elimination diet I think I've heard you'll need to wait 4-8 weeks???? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The one thing that jumps out at me in your post is the baths. Even with a medicated or mild shampoo frequent baths can strip the oil out of a dog's skin, leading to itchy skin. Don't stop until you check with your doctor but I'd ask if it's something that can be put on hold, for a while at least.

Finally, we've heard from owners in our hospital that the topical flea meds aren't working as well as they once did. Maybe fleas are becoming resistant? You might want to reconsider the flea meds and try switching to Advantage or one of the oral monthly pills available. And remember too, in some dogs it takes only 1 flea to start an allergic reaction.

Ditto, ditto, ditto!

Flea allergy is by far number one, WAY ahead of food and even ahead of inhalant/environmental, so I would start now on Advantage or the like. The topical flea meds are not even close in effectiveness, from all I have read. (Actually, I tried one once, too, called BioSpot, and saw zero effect; that was what made me start reading.) One bite is enough to drive an allergic dog crazy.

Inhalant/environmental allergies (second in frequency) often respond very well to a combination of fish oil and Hydroxyzine. It was discovered in 2005 that Benadryl didn't work as well as three RX antihistamines (including Hydroxyzine; I have posted all three here but don't recall the other two at the moment, since I settled on Hydroxyzine), and that the antihistamine's properties were synergistic with fish oil (Omega 3s from marine sources, not flax). (Flax and other plant sources provide Omega 3 EFas that dogs cannot convert into long-chain EFAs the way humans can.)

I would absolutely continue with no grains, because even if the allergy is a food allergy and even if it is NOT a grain, I have read enough research to convince me that grains in the dog's diet are detrimental to the immune system, and allergies are an immune response.

JMO, after several years spent learning about canine allergies.

Good luck, and please post back if you have other questions.

P.S. I keep a spray bottle of "Relief" (from the vet's office) for bad spots; it's temporary but sometimes helpful. I also clean off the paws and undercarriage of the allergic dog when he comes inside during pollen season so he is not tracking allergens onto his bed and breathing them off his fur and skin.

I watch the dog's ears religiously because secondary ear infections are very VERY common with allergies; if you see inflammation in there you will want to get him to the vet asap and nip any potential ear infection in the bud.

Allergies are all about whatever works for your dog, and I'd do everything possible to reduce and try to eliminate the cortisone meds.

As a final resort, a vet dermatologist can do skin tests (not blood tests, unless you have no resource to skin tests at all) and then have the lab make up an individual series of desensitizing injections for your dog. This is expensive and not 100%, but I've done it and been very grateful for the help it provided.

P.S. Lamb is no longer considered a universal "novel" food (for elimination diets) because many dogs have indeed eaten it. As you know, allergies develop over repeated exposure, so the allergen is something he has eaten over time.) Several foods called "chicken" or "beef" recipe also contain lamb, so I'd read the labels carefully on his old foods to make sure.

If there's doubt, I'd consider a really novel protein source such as buffalo, ostrich, or venison. I have heard that some dogs who are allergic to beef are also allergic to buffalo, but I have had a different experience.

Dogs are highly individual in their allergies, though, so what foods affect or work for one dog has little or nothing to do with your own.

 Quote: jay biles

Any ideas on what we may be able to do right now to help him with his itching

Right now, what I would do:

Start on a gram of fish oil* for every ten pounds of dog weight (so about 1.4 teaspoons for a 70-lb. dog) instead of flax (which is an allergen to a few dogs, BTW) with Vitamin E; clean off his paws and undercarriage with a hypoallergenic baby wipe when he comes in off grass; ask the vet for a trial RX of a prescription antihistamine like Hydroxyzine, see how it works, and try a different one after ten days if it's not better than Benadryl (and I will find the other two names); get a topical spray like "Relief" for the worst spots and see if it helps; wash his bed pad or blanket in case it too is loaded with an allergen from outside. Check his old food labels for lamb.

All JMO. These are the steps I would take to start.

*A potent anti-inflammation agent, and the atopic dermatitis driving him nuts is inflammation.

Thanks to all for your responses. Max has been on both Salmon Oil and Vit E for a very long time now. I live in Texas so the dry weather is not an issue as I live near the coast where it is very high in humity pretty much year round.
No lamb has been in his diet to date in any or all of the foods and treats given thus far, that is why we went with lamb for this.
Max gets his feet pretty much cleaned almost each and every time he comes in the house, he is an inside dog and we try and keep him pretty much clean and smelling nice :-).
The vet had requested that Max take 2 to 3 baths a week, knowing that bathing removes their skin oils, Max has been being bathed more like once a week. When I wash Max with his regular shampoo, I use one that does not contain soap and does not strip his skin oils. Yes read too much on this site :-).
As far as fleas goes, we have not seen even one on him, that does not mean he could not ever have one but we have no traces of them in our home and none on Max. I kind of asked the same ? to the vet but he did not think that fleas were an issue.
Thanks to all again for your responses. Max also has a RX for itching that is called Amitriptyline HCI 25 mg, the vet said to give them 2 twice a day but they seem to help little or no more than Benadryl.
That gives a bit more back ground.
Jay

Jay, I could've saved a lot of typing if I had noticed that you were the O.P.

I know you read and post here regularly.

The antihistamine you have is not one of the three that I read about in that Tufts report in 2005. That doesn't exclude it per se from some list of effective RXs, of course.

However, you have inspired me to go find the darned list of the three that Tufts found useful in conjunction with fish oil.

BTW, are you giving a dose of about a gram per ten pounds of weight (or about 1.4 teaspoons for a 70-pound dog)? Part of that same study addressed the frequent underdosage of Omega 3s for skin pruritis and atopic dermatitis.

Ditto the other post on the food but, must emphasize the bath thing. It has been my experience that bathing too often can really cause problems. IMO many dogs are bathed way too much. I only bath once or twice a year. I brush my dogs at least every other day. If they get a little ripe smelling I spray them with plain water and then brush. In the summer we just play the hose game.

Poor guy, hope you get it figured out soon. Atarax worked well to break that itching cycle for a rescue of mine till I got her on a better food. Needless to say she did sleep alot.

Good luck,
Debbie

OK, I found it.

Chlorpheniramine, hydroxyine and clemastine were the three listed in that research about combining fish oil with antihistamines.

Also, it said that dogs react differently to the three human antihistamines, and it's a good idea to try each one for a couple of weeks and then try the next......

I did chlorpheniramine with one dog a couple of years ago and it was effective, but on the allergic dog I have now, hydroxyine was better.

I am 100% with Debbie about baths, but at the same time being careful to clean the undercarriage (including groin and armpits) and paws after a trip on grass.

I've learned that allergies can't be cured; thay can be managed, and I throw every trick I have at them, watching for the ones that work on the individual dog.