Hi all,

My 5 yr old GSD has just been diagnosed as having a small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) and possible exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) as her TLI score was just below normal at 3.1 (5+ is normal).

She is on metronidazole for 30 days to help with the SIBO and we might be putting her on digestive enzymes once we get the results of a second TLI bloodtest regarding the EPI.

So being that EPI is a huge problem in GSDs, I was wondering if any of you had experience feeding raw to an EPI and/or SIBO dog?? She is currently fed raw with fairly good success, but I wonder if I should be doing anything differently.

Thanks!
Melissa

Do you know about the EPI support groups? I have heard from more than one owner who is dealing with the challenge that they are invaluable.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/k9-EPIGLOBAL/

I also understand from them that if/as the disease progresses, the important thing is that the dog is fed what the individual dog can digest best, which is often food low in fiber and fat (and to me, personally, fresh raw food of the most efficient proteins, such as poultry, would be the first line --- JMO).

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_exocrine_pancreatic_insufficie.html

Thanks Connie...I did already join the yahoo group and have found it to be so helpful, especially since the group owner is a raw feeder.

I guess I will keep doing what I have been, though no more hamburger lol. She definitely does best on raw...it always seemed like she was starving while on kibble and now I know in all actuality, she was.

I'm just glad to have gotten to the bottom of her mysterious digestive problems that rear their head every once in awhile and the lovely gaseous odor she produces...we'll take it all in stride and see how we can help her out as much as possible

Well, as you will have learned from the group, aside from the low-fiber part, dogs are individual in their abilities to process different protein sources.

So this suggestion is based only on one dog I know.

His owner (in our training club) found that he did best with ground low-fat poultry. Of course you would consult with a canine nutritionist before making such a radical change as using calcium supplements, but that was he ended up doing: using ground raw turkey and chicken breast with occasional fillets of sole as the protein, with the prescribed amount of bone and shell meal sprinkled on it instead of actual bones, and powdered vitamin supplement (also prescribed).

Again, this was after consulting with a vet with a nutrition specialty, *not* on his own. And the nutritionist-vet continued to see the dog every month or so to check serum calcium, etc.

For this particular dog, who is also on pancreatic enzymes, this diet was a huge relief to a dog who was starving on kibble, a little better on Wellness canned, and then best on the raw diet they worked out (above) after trial and error.

I'm not a health professional and have not had an e.p.i. dog myself; I just wanted to let you know what's possible.

(I have also read that a sizeable percentage of e.p.i. dogs do not respond to treatment, and I know that the support group will have let you know this. But some do just great with the right diet and enzymes, and sometimes antibiotic therapy as needed.)

P.S. Dogs with EPI usually have have extremely low serum concentrations of TLI (trypsin-like immunoreactivity), I think. Did they do a fasting blood draw?

 Quote: Melissa Hoyer

... I'm just glad to have gotten to the bottom of her mysterious digestive problems...

I read and hear that a lot. A person in a canine nutrition class I take said she cried when her dog was diagnosed..... not from sorrow, but from relief to have an answer and a treatment protocol, at last.

She told us about that support group, which she credits for her dog's good quality of life.

Melissa are you just now starting the Raw, has she been on kibles most of her life?
I wish you and your dog the best...

Melissa, this is the GSD who you thought was a tad thin about a year ago, right?

I was just reading about e.p.i. again, and found that it can be sub-clinical for years, with nothing but underweight as a clue (and BTW, is almost never diagnosed at that level, so nothing you or your vet could've done or known).

I found advice to feed multiple small meals, rather than one or two.

Also, the newest Merck has changed the advice about fat somewhat.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/23404.htm

QUOTE: Feeding low-fat diets to accommodate impaired fat digestion has been suggested, but this may further decrease fat assimilation and lead to deficiencies of fat-soluble vitamins and/or essential fatty acids. END

Medium-chain EFAs are suggested. Flax oil, borage oil, hempseed oil.... there are many sources for easily-digested medium-chain essential fatty acids.

I'm only giving you these notes in case you want to discuss them with your vet and/or vet nutritionist, because it looks like the low-fat recommendations of even a couple of years ago are giving way in some vet manuals to a change in fat type instead. (When a condition is under such intense scrutiny, the protocols can be in constant flux, I think. The more sources of info, the better.)

Angelique,

She has been on raw for the year, though I took her off for a few months and it was disasterous. She will be five in a few days, so essentially she spent the first 3 years of her life on kibble.

Thank you for your well wishes She's such a good sport and now I finally have a reason for feeding her all this "strange food", not allowing people to give her treats/people food, etc...all the things that have made me seem obsessive to other people I'm quite sure lol.

Connie,

For so many years, she has just been thin (I'm sure it was me commenting on her a year or so ago) with occasional digestive problems like bile vomiting, refusal to eat, etc. But again, only on occasion, much more often while on kibble...less often (2-3) times a year on Raw.

We went through another bout of this about 3 weeks ago and at that point, I'd had enough! So off to the vet we went...

Her first TLI blood test was not entirely fasted (she had a small bone and water), so we are repeating the test after a 12 hour fast. I'll have those results next week.

Thank your for your diet recommendations. I have found that Grace actually does best when eating about 35% RMBs, though I have read that some EPI dogs do not do well on any, similarly to the dog you know.

I need to learn more about fats as I don't really know much about them...hopefully we can find some alternative sources. From what I understand, the fiber content is more important that fat content for EPI dogs.

I'm curious about finding a canine nutritionist. My vet certainly is NOT one...he really doesn't talk diet with me because he knows I feed raw and it is not something he supports. And I'm darn jealous that you have canine nutrition classes in your area!

Thanks again & sorry if I missed anything ... it's time for me to take the dogs out for their run and I'm getting the evil eye, so I hurried through a bit lol.

Melissa

Melissa,

Our GSD was diagnosed with EPI about 4 years ago. Switching to a raw diet was really the turning point in his recovery. His typical meal is a chicken quarter (skin & fat trimmed), about 6-8 oz of venison, raw egg (whole), 1 tablespoon of low-fat plain yougurt & about 1 cup of Innova EVO, and enzymes. He has also eaten fish, green tripe, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs & feet at various times without trouble.

We have found that the absence of grain has been very beneficial. Also, the quality of the fats seems to be important. Fish oils and what fat there is in venison have been OK for his digestion and are definitely an essential part of the diet. When we were experimenting early on after his diagnosis by using an elimination diet, we found that the addition of venison and/or fish/fish oil were needed to maintain good skin and coat health. It seems that the regular addition of yogurt helps with the SIBO.

Hope this helps.

 Quote:

When we were experimenting early on after his diagnosis by using an elimination diet, we found that the addition of venison and/or fish/fish oil were needed to maintain good skin and coat health.

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