Hi there I was wondering if someone could give me a full breakdown on the diffence raising a working dog vs. a pet dog...How to bond w/ a dominant dog that won't learn if forced or presured and how to work around this issuse...Agressive isn't an issuse

here ya go
http://www.leerburg.com/117.htm

worth every penny
I don't have "working dogs" but I learned a lot from this vid and it helped me with the training I wanted to accomplish

The major difference in raising a working dog and a pet is that you want to avoid reinforcing submissive behavior, avoid situations where a young dog will be dominated by people, and build the dog's drive and confidence as he matures.

Pet's who have normal interactions with people and other animals are constantly being pushed into submissive and non-aggressive behavior. They are also constantly being positively reinforced for displaying those behaviors.

You basically want the dog, as he matures, to think that he is the badest thing yet to have walked the earth. The dog shouldn't feel the need to assume "pet" like behavior around people. Walking up, licking their faces, rolling over for a belly rub, etc.

I would much prefer a dog who displays dominant behavior around people and I try to make sure we spend time socializing around people who will play along.

As the dog matures, then we work on obedience training and manners around people. What is and is not allowed. But as pups and young adults I want them to be pushy and challenging and I want everyone who comes into contact with them to allow that behavior and reinforce it by becoming submissive.

I stroke the dog's ego till he is old enough and mature enough to deal with outside pressure.

hey Robert, my 5 1/2 month GSD hasn't been around very many dogs yet and when she does get around them she barks, growls, hackles up, etc...I try not to discourage or encourage this and basically just ignore it. I want to do Schutzhund with her soon and am trying to get a handle on how much of this is ok.

I realize most of it right now is just her being nervous and trying to act like she's uberdog...and she's not--right now, anyway. When other dogs have gotten too close she hides between my legs

but again, how much of that should I ignore/encourage/correct?

she's good with people...curious, but not a lap dog either. She basically waits to see what I do with them.

with dogs, she goes nuts until she sees they aren't acting threatening to her or me...then she completely calms down and ignores them or occasionally wants to play.

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hey Robert, my 5 1/2 month GSD hasn't been around very many dogs yet and when she does get around them she barks, growls, hackles up, etc...I try not to discourage or encourage this and basically just ignore it. I want to do Schutzhund with her soon and am trying to get a handle on how much of this is ok.

I realize most of it right now is just her being nervous and trying to act like she's uberdog...and she's not--right now, anyway. When other dogs have gotten too close she hides between my legs

I would like to hear the answer to this as well.

To me it sounds like if she hasnt been around other dogs she isnt socialized to them. Isnt she showing sings of FEAR and not that of confidence or indifference? She is hiding behind legs, barking and growling with hackles?

Isn't a Schutzund puppy prospect NOT supposed to show these signs?

What other reason other than lack of social or neutral - ization would be acceptable in such a young dog? Working or Pet.

Hackles, barking and growling are not (to me) signs of fear in a puppy. Uncertainly perhaps (and there's nothing negative about that), but not fear. Hiding behind the leader when a dog approaches for a 5 1/2 mo old pup is the pup knowing who will protect him/her in an uncertain situation with what the puppy knows to be an adult dog. Mike's pup has the alpha structure intact. This is JMO.

If someone thinks these are signs of fear in a pup, I'd like to hear the "why" explained in some measure of convincing detail.

Thanks sandy.
Just wanting to know. What the general consensus is.

I got the DVD and trained somewhat IAW it with the intention of doing Sch. because of family commitments, time and costs I had to drop Sch. However I did find that it was very effective for training my dogs to do "tricks" in public in front of an impromtu audience. If you take your dog out in public settings ie restruants, schools, etc or do a lot of traveling it is well worth it.

Lol, Mike, my pup was never dog-aggressive but also did the hiding between my legs thing that Brenna does.

He got over it though, when he was 6-7 months old

I just very firmly shooed off any dog he was worried about when he was a baby and didn't seek out or avoid areas with dogs. Just went about our walks, training and play as if the dogs weren't there.

Fortunately, the dogs in my area are all very friendly, good natured and well cared-for pets. Most of them approach submissively because of my pup's size. Because of this, I was able to let him play with other dogs (always one on one, never in packs).

He's usually not interested in an approaching dog and will ignore them if I'm playing with him or training. If I do point to the dog and say "ok! go ahead" he's always eager to play.
Because of his size and his dominant (but playful) attitude with other dogs, I don't let him run up to the other dog, even when the owner says it's ok. I make him sit by my side and wait for the other dog to come over.
He's very gentle with small dogs and submissive/shy dogs so he's actually been helpful in socializing/neutralizing some previously traumatized dogs who were afraid of big dogs.

However, I don't let him interact with other dominant dogs (even friendly playful ones) because he gets too intent on showing his dominance. Obviously he does it all in play now, but I'd rather just not allow it to begin with so I don't have to deal with his behaviour when he's 2 or 3 years old when he suddenly might decide that it's no longer a game )


Anyway, I'd go with ignoring other dogs unless they come up to her (in which case you'd chase them off, of course). If you do find a quiet friendly dog that you're comfortable letting her interact with, ask the owner to put their dog in a sit by their side (if they can't do this, don't bother) and walk up to the dog first.
You can then encourage her to come up as well so she can see that there's nothing to be afraid of.

Just make sure that the dog isn't aggressive or even overwhelmingly energetic so you don't make her fear worse. Ideally the other dog should be more of a throw-rug (personality-wise) than a real dog

ha Sandy, she definitely knows who "Daddy" is!