One of the things that has always bothered me with Mals, Pits, and the GSD I have been seeing the last 10 or so years is the uncontroled barking I see with these dogs. Prey drive is one thing; but as soon as these dogs see a sleeve, or in some cases as soon as they get to the field they start in with the totaly out of control barking. I have always seen this as a negative. It seems to be breed specific. It doesn't seem to occur as much in Rotts or some other breeds. I have worked Giants for the last 15 years and they don't do it. They seem content to wait until there is a percieved threat to react. Once threatened they then bark and bite as required, once called out they calm right down again.

Is there an advantage to the "out of control" prey barking? Is there an advantage in attempting to control it in the begining of training, or is just the breed and it should be controled later? I never used to see it in GSD they were always the more calm, react to a problem, and then calm right down again type of worker. Is this some thing that has been bred into these breeds for sport work?

Richard,
Your comments are very true,Rotts dont bark and getting them to can sometimes be hard work.As an example,we have a UK police officer suing his police authority for hearing damage caused by a GSD in the back of his van constantly barking.Seems to me the world has gone barking mad,if this sort of thing goes on.

I think the "out of control" prey barking thing is a question of basic obedience. You`re teaching the dog to heel/to down/to out and so on. So teach him to SHUT UP when nothing is happening.(If you can`t stand the noise). I have seen handlers having a hard time to do this, but if you can`t show him where NORTH ON THE MAP IS....who can.:-)

I guess part of the question is: Is this a training technique with some reason to it? I have had trainers suggest that the dog should be in that crazy worked up state. I had one aggitator make the suggestion that the dog should be all "fired up" and barking uncontrollably. I told him the dog would be fine, and sent the dog. The dog hit him so hard he wouldn't work him any more. I never saw the point in creating a problem you will have to correct later.

Um I would question a decoy's abilty if he refuses to work a dog because it hit him very hard, unless he is crippled to start with or a new helper. This is a training problem. As someone else said it boils down to Ob. You need more ccontrol over the animal. It can sometimes be used to your advantage, but also the barking can make a dog hectic by him overloading. It is really hard to say what effect it has on a dog without seeing it. I do believe though not all dogs are for everyone.

I want my dogs to "turn on-turn off" when I tell them too.. I don't want all thier energy wasted in barking. I want them focused and intense.. but that doesn't mean barking thier fool heads off. I agree..teach them when it is appropriate and when it is not.

Jody

Although I have not been involved in any working dog sports, I agree that a dog's barking comes down to training. My GSD only barks if she perceives that there is any imminent danger and I am usually able to call her off with one simple verbal command.

Yet my neighbour's rotti will bark at anything that may happen to pass near their fence and it's a toss-up between what is more annoying - the dog barking or the owners trying to call it off.

Could the amount of barking from dogs have more to do with their sex than the breed?

I think in this case it might have more to do with the owners than the breed or sex of the dog. Their annoying "call off" is encouraging the dog to bark more.

I have a 19 month old Mali that I'm training and I'm having trouble with the bark on command. He seems to bark in appropriate situations and is SILENT in others. I guess I should be pleased and maybe I don't need to train him at all.

Richard wrote:

 Quote:

They seem content to wait until there is a percieved threat to react. Once threatened they then bark and bite as required, once called out they calm right down again.

Is there an advantage to the "out of control" prey barking?

Hi Richard,
I am not quite clear on what you mean by out of control but just my take on the "advantages" of a dog that barks as it comes on the field.
What you seem to be describing from the first quote above, is a dog that is "reactive". As I'm sure you know, in the SchH trial the dog always must initiate the fight.The dog does this by barking. The first exercise is the hold and bark. The dog must go to the blind with no stimulation or threat from the helper and "initiate" the fight. He must go to the blind and bark at a somewhat neutral bad guy.So my answer to your question about the advantages, I would say that is one.
Again, I am not sure what you mean by "out of control". I think the bark should be with some intent, i.e. to move the helper etc. This kind of barking is not all based in prey however. A dog that just barks and has no idea that his bark has any power would not, in my opinion, be advantageous.
These types of dogs usually, in my experience, have weaker nerves and are less capable of capping their drives as a result. The barking is more hectic and without "purpose".It sounds to me like this is the kind of dog that you are describing.
Then again, the helper can take a good dog and make a mess of it by demanding this kind of behavior. The helpers that think a dog should be this high, clearly don't understand how to "load" a dog correctly in order to get the proper behavior. The helper work done before the bite is offered has everything to do with what happens later in training. Overloading the dog will lead to problems with the bark,the bite, the out , etc.
Not something that I would encourage in my training. Just my two cents.