You're right Vince...I let my patriotism get the better of me..nuff said..

Brendan wrote: I still think that it is a dumb idea that a person who has just engaged the dog in combat should then at any point relate to the dog as a friend or in any way other than as a adversary. As I said, if it isnt going to happen in real life why do it in training.

***** If your training is realistic as it should be towards the end of it (not that training ever ends) then the dog may be exposed to the decoy a few minutes after he bites him.

Brendan wrote: If anyone can illustrate a situation where a dog would be expsected to relate as a friend to a person he has just fought for real please relate it to me.

I’ve been present at quite a few scenes after a suspect has been bitten and taken into custody. They’re often pretty confusing places, especially if there are still outstanding suspects.

***** I had just let my dog out of the car to start a search for a second suspect when some officers led the bitten suspect past my dog, a few feet away, while taking him to the Paramedic van.

***** Clumsy yes. But I was sure glad that I’d trained my dog to accept the presence of someone he’d just bitten.

I have the 'key board engaged without the brain being in gear' sometimes. No hard feelings guys.

Thanks Lou for the input, I can see what you guys are saying now. That certainly is a practical situation where a dog would have to accept the close proximity of a previous combattant.
I only (very, very, humbely guys) suggests having the suspect passing in close proximity is not the same as having him physically touch the dog and pet him and directly address the dog which is what the question which iniated this thread was about.

 Quote:

I only (very, very, humbely guys) suggests having the suspect passing in close proximity is not the same as having him physically touch the dog and pet him and directly address the dog which is what the question which iniated this thread was about.

True, but if you know your dog is solid in a situation where the bad guy touches him after a fight, then you won't have any worries about the bad guy walking very close to him either. Or stumbling and brushing up against him, etc. Or in the case of a training scenario, you and your dog needing to hop into a car with your fellow officer who 60 seconds earlier was the decoy.

When I worked protection dogs the trainer had the decoy touch (pet) the dog after doing bitework, or muzzle work, on occasion. The dog didn't have to be friendly, but they had to tolerate it. It's simply one more chance to practice control of the dog, and let him know if I said "no bite" then I meant "no bite". We also practiced having mock fights in front of the dog after telling them "no bite". Last thing I want or need is my dog to bite a friend, family member, etc because we got into a huge yelling match in front of the dog. If you train for every possible bizarre scenario you can come up with, and push the limits, then chances are you'll have the control you need to do OK in a real life situation.

My head is spinning. My hats go off to you people. At least I have a rule book to refrence.

Actually, I like to do that with my sport dogs now also :-) Usually with the decoy in the suit. When I first got my FRIII he was pretty civil towards the decoys. He was perfectly social with people, until you had gotten in the suit and worked him. Afterwards, in or out of the suit, he'd give you the "evil eye". My intentions for him were strictly to be a sport dog, so we worked on changing this attitude, the decoys would play fetch with him, take him for a short walk (on the field), feed him treats, etc. It helped with his outs also since he outs better when he's more prey oriented, when he's wound up tight in fight his outs are slow and he's spending his time trying to intimidate and/or hurt the decoy. It's simply become a habit for me to do it with my older dogs. The pups drag me on the field screaming for a bite, and are drug off the field the same way, but once they are doing solid work, I start a little control on and off the field.
As for the scenarios, I train my sport dogs that way also. I figure if they've seen lots of bizarre things in training, then the stuff they run into on the competition field will seem pretty tame by comparison.

O.K, I accept where you guys are comming from. My envisaged application is somewhat different from that of civlian police, sport dog or your average personal protection dog.

I'll be training my dog that if the enemy moves in close its a attact in the making and the dog should respond with a all out counter attack.

Thanks for everyones input. Im off to harangue somebody for critiscising me for shooting a couple of dud dobes I had.