I have watched Ed’s DVD’s; 8 wks to 8 mos. and Basic Obedience. Bella is a 3 month old GSD) and does the sit at the door (doesn’t stay seated, as soon as she’s treated and praised she’s up on all fours nose to the door, I hold her back and tell her, “after me” before preceding out the door and down the steps). She sits in her crate waiting for her food when I open the crate door. She sits on command for her leash (though she wiggles like mad while whining excitedly taking me twice as long to get the leash on her). She does down and will stay down as long as I continue to drop treats; the same with sitting. The treats stop, she’s up and off or looks to me for more treats. She also goes in her crate when told “house”. All commands are followed by treating and praising. She also does come really well, inside and out. Even under distraction. My boyfriend will have treats in his hand and I have treats in mine. He can call her and she will start towards him and I say, “Bella, Come!” and she will turn from him and come to me on high speed. I have done all of this without any corrections other than a soft no silly girl. The firm NO! is only used so far for jumping up on the kids and furniture (NO, OFF") and for mouthing the kids. She responds to hand signals as well as my voice commands as far as sit and down. Lastly, Bella is a pet only, not a working dog (she didn’t come from a registered mother and father, hence no pedigree knowledge). My questions are:

1.) How old should she be before I start working on the stay part of sit and down? I don’t want to use the word stay as I’ve read on a lot of the posts here and see that it shouldn’t be necessary as it is expected she will stay until a new command is given or she is released. Or that is the goal anyway.
2.) How old should she be before I start corrections? Walking her on leash is impossible. She pulls something fierce so I’ve just stayed away from going on walks with her as I thought she is too young for leash corrections right now.

Yes, I have spent many hours on the site and have searched through the archives and though I’ve seen much information, I couldn’t find any specific answers to my questions. If these questions have been asked before, I do apologize and simply pointing me to the specific threads would be welcome.

Thanks a ton!

Kristina

she is SOOO pretty!! i just love the beady brown-eyed innocent look (BTW--my 14 mo old still works that look!).
anyway, i'm no expert, but at 12 weeks old, perhaps just try lengthening the time between treats a little at a time. if you watch her closely, you'll see when she's about to break the position, then treat again--before she breaks.

one thing i try to keep in mind when i'm working w/my pup: change only one thing at a time: distance, duration or distraction (i think there's another "D" but i cannot for the life of me remember it).

IMO,at her age, she's too young for corrections other than the ones you noted.

hopefully, some of the more experienced ppl will respond with better tips. but she is a cutie-patootie!

Well, it starts right away whether you think so or not.

If you increase the amount of time, even if by fractions of a second, before marking and/or rewarding, she's learning to stay for progressively greater fractions of a second.

Here is what I think, be PATIENT. Dont be in to much of a hurry. It sounds like you are doing every thing right. I,m not sure there is an exact time that is best. Because this is a family dog, you can start a little earlier. Just keep doing what your doing and your dog will get it. Be consistant. If the dog must sit before you give the food extend that a little by makeing the dog sit while the food is place on the ground and make her wait until you say free or come or what ever word you want to use. Sounds to me like your doing a good job.

I don't do anything with a pup till 5+ months and don't expect any kind of performance till after 10 or 11 months. Don't worry about puppy work.

why the difference in when you start obedience depending on if it is a pet or a working dog?

i agree that the training begins the minute the pup arrives in your home, whether you do it intentionally or by default. the pup is constantly watching and learning, you may as well use that to your advantage.

i wouldn't do hard corrections on a young pup, but i would start teaching stay on day one, without any hesitation. you can do everything in a positive way. i also reinforce positive behaviors as much as possible and do my best to prevent negative ones from ever happening. the dog, as a creature of habit, will never do what he's never been allowed to do.

mike, very curious why you wait?

I like puppies, they're funny watching em jump around n go nuts for food n act goofy, biting everything n hanging onto pant legs while you walk around the house. You have the dogs entire life to shape their behavior, so why not let them be a puppy as long as possible and enjoy their freedoms and enjoy them for what they are? Most people tend to get far too frustrated and impatient with pups and expecting their pup to do much more than they should be doing. It is better to error on the loose side of a pup than to error on the side where you start to hate your pup because no matter how hard you try they just don't "get" what you're teaching them. At 8 weeks its aww look cute lil puppy, by 6 months its "damnit he's as big as an adult dog he should be acting like one! He's driving me nuts!". I don't care if its pet or working hmoe, don't expect too much and don't be in a rush! I see people in a rush all the time because someone told them "wow you have a german shepherd, they're smart, you can do advanced obedience at 10 months old", then they get frustrated and mad at the dog because he's not living up to his breed reputation. Does it really matter if it takes 3 years to train a dog instead of 6 months? Same goes for offering a dog freedoms around the house, people are in a rush to let their dog roam around the house, then get mad when stuff gets destroyed because "he's 8 months old now he's old enough to behave"... well, you would save $100's of dollars and hours of stress if you just crated the dang dog till he's 3 if that's what it takes.

I don't mean not to do anything with your pup at all, pups do pick up the way you run your household and their daily routines etc, but other than house breaking, I don't even care if my pup sits or not until I see their personality reach the point where they have enough focus that they can remember something for more than 1/2 a second.

i see your point. some people go into a drill sargeant routine with puppies and i very much agree that is inappropriate.

but i don't want to do NO training because my experience is that what you allow a dog to do as a pup, he'll try to get away wtih the rest of his life. easier to nip it in the bud when they are little...

hm, i think maybe my perspective also comes from owning the breed i do. you have to train mastiffs while you are still stronger than they are, or you are out of luck. and they are stronger than me starting at about four months of age.

i'll probably p.o. some people here, but i have begun obedience training--gentle! not drill sargeant stuff!--as young as five weeks old, and that particular puppy turned out the very best of any dog i've ever had or probably will have. no behavioral problems, beautifully socialized, completely trustworthy around anyone and any dog.

i taught him sit, stay, down, come, shake, speak, and heel before he was eight weeks old. NO corrections, though!

to me, the advantage of starting early is that the dog gets so conditioned to obeying it never seems to cross his mind not to, in future.

I don't think there's anything wrong with starting obedience training from the day you bring a puppy home as long as you keep things fun and positive. And, as long as you can keep your patience level high (very difficult for us humans). I like to use games and catching the pup in the act of performing a wanted behavior as part of ongoing training. Mainly, have fun and enjoy his puppyhood because just like with your kids, it's both frustrating at times and all too short.

To gradually increase the time the pup stays, gradually increase time between the action and reward. If you've been instantly rewarding, for example, try counting one second before treating.

Edited by Elaine Haynes (04/07/2007 06:56 AM)
Edit reason: added info and corrected an error.

Alot has to do with the individual pup, some dogs are easy to train and enjoy listening, a genetic "will to please", some are a pain in the ass and no amount of conditioning will make them any easier. Unortunately it's a moot point to argue because once you train a dog young, you can't go back and train the dog at an older age and see the difference to see whether it mattered or not, all you can do is look at the dogs behavior and result and see if you like the way your dog turned out. If you do, then great! The biggest thing I notice with people who are too hard on their pups young, is a lack of "personality" so to speak. They seek permission from the owner so much that they have lost their own decision making skills, they become flat. I like hyper pushy dogs and I like letting puppies develop their personality, and simply help steer it towards what you want rather than putting complete control over it.