First let me start off by stating that these are not my dogs I am going to speak of; but they could become my problem.

Background:
I have recently moved into a new townhouse. This house is in a row of houses with an identical row behind and to the side (paralell and one perpendicular to those two) facing each other by the backyards. There is common space between these rows running the length of each complex and about 30 to 35 feet wide.

A neighbor of mine (a young couple) adopted 2 Bernese puppies, at the same time, from the same litter, both male.

Problem:
These two dogs are the princes of the kingdom. The owners have no idea how to live with dogs and the dogs are bonded to each other and the rank structure goes; dog-dog-human-human. The common space I mentioned has become the dog's play area and as they are growing up they seem to be getting territorial over it. I watch them sometimes play with other neighborhood dogs and work together to dominate the "newbie".

My Concern: is that these dogs are only going to get bigger and more powerful and further set in their ways of being the top dogs of their pack.

The couple, who I have approached on the situation, are not willing to listen to any dog facts I present to them and are decided that these dogs are not the boss and that there is no problem. etc... All the normal "I have no clue stuff" that comes with oblivious dog owners.

What I am planning: is basically to offer to train their dogs for them. This way they will get consistency (from me) and (fingers crossed) leadership; even though I do not live in the same household. Hopefully, that way if I am ever approached by these two dogs (that I don't even think HAVE leashes) they will obey my commands to an extent.

Obviously my concern is my own dog in this situation.

I do carry peper spray but only use it if I absolutely have to and would rather not gas a neighbor's dog(s) if I can avoid it. I can also report them to our by-law offices (and have) but that does nothing for me in the moment.

In a nut shell I hope to gain a marginal bit of control, for my own dog's safety, over a possible hazardous situation.

Without telling me to spray the dogs or report the people (please see above ) I'd be happy to hear some thoughts or comments on what you all think of the situation, my possible approach to a marginal solution, or what you might try if you were wearing my shoes?

Thanx!!

Unfortunately if they are not going to listen to you when you talk to them, the odds that they will let you TRAIN their dogs is very unlikely indeed. Imagine the look on their faces when their neighbor straps a prong collar on them??? Good luck with that one!

Unfortunately in a situation like that, unless people are willing to listen, its unlikely that you will ever get thru to them until something bad happens to make them realize they are dumb.

Mike is exactly right. As much help as I'd like to offer you Brad, I really can't think of anything. You offering to train their dogs for them is very generous, but in all honesty, it will just be a waste of your time. Hopefully someone else can think of something....

You could get yourself in trouble liability-wise too, if training doesn't go well, I would think. I wouldn't want to be associated with that situation at all. I think despite any efforts you could make in that direction, their lack of rules at home is going to override anything you might be able to attempt in training. Living with/raising two at a time is a disaster waiting to happen; on the periphery you're powerless. I think your best solution is to find another place for your dog to romp, and when the neighbors ask the inevitable "why?", just tell them you don't want to be involved in the train-wreck that you see coming. Something bad is going to happen, you've done what you can do. All you can do at this point is make sure your dog isn't involved in the melee, and let the idiots deal with their own consequences. It's too bad the rights of stupid people so often interfere with the rest of us though.

HI,

I assume there are probably children in the "neighborhood". Maybe if you SHOW them what a menace two dogs without leadership are to society they might listen.

If you have access to a printer, why don't you print Ed's aticles (with pictures) of dog bites?

http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm#kids
http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/raisingtwopuppies.pdf

I do hope you will listen, but they sound as if they feel they "know it all". I bet they can't get the pups to obey them.

Well thanks everybody, I guess you are right. I didn't consider the direction of the finger pointing when the "trained" dogs arrive at the inevitable outcome that this situation may bring. And beleive me if I actually thought that the articles would get through to them I'd tuck these people into bed at night and read the articles to them by the light of the moon!

Geez my whole neighborhood is like one big off-leash dog park! It's too bad that these fools are on my back door step!

I guess I'll just have to stay on my toes a little bit more and when I wined up stepping into a problematic situation just do my best to solve the problem the best way I can. Of course that would be followed up with a nice big sarcastic I TOLD YOU SO!!

 Quote: Brad . Martin

And beleive me if I actually thought that the articles would get through to them I'd tuck these people into bed at night and read the articles to them by the light of the moon!

You can sure bet I'm going to use this line some day!

Brad, simplicity itself! Just send one of their dogs to me in Ohio! That way, they would only have one terror on their hands; you would only have to use half as much spray, and I would have a Bernie!

-Jim

Hi Brad. I am going to have to side w/the other folks that have posted thus far.

I don't think you should put yourself in a situation (training their dogs) that could end w/you being named as the defendant in some suit they decide is warranted. They sound ignorant from start to finish.

Even if they give you the time-consuming "opportunity" to train their dogs, I don't think the upside to training them (marginal, keep-your-fingers-crossed obedience) outweighs the downside (litigation, no obedience whatsoever). The dogs are already bonded to each other, yes? I'm not downplaying your skills as a trainer but, yeesh, there's got to be something else you can do to be more effective in protecting your dog.

I used to live in a condo that I would describe in much the same way you described your living situation - shared yard, etc. There seems to be a strange mentality that overcomes people in this type of living arrangement. It's like every inch that is legally theirs will not be compromised under any circumstances and where there is shared property, a strange territorial assertiveness/aggressiveness sets in. I have since moved and I don't miss it.

Maybe I'm wrong and not giving enough credit to these two dinks. I supposed there is always the chance they will listen to you and your supplication. But I'm guessing if you had strong hopes of that being probable, you wouldn't have posted here.

Your situation is unfortunate, unfair and uncomplicated. Stay the hell out of Dodge, my friend.

Now Jim, are you sure you want a Bernie around?

What if it accidentally sits on that little poof of yours? I doubt that UGA would approve


Oh and Brad, that really sucks. I'm sorry for your predicament.

I have a lady living down the street who's constantly fostering Catahoulas and whose dogs frequently get loose.

My advice would be to make sure that these dogs see you as someone to avoid early on. Really get on their case if they ever even walk up to you and your dog.
That's what I did with the loose dogs on my street and now they know to steer WAYY clear of me when I'm walking my dogs.

Peaceful and satisfying - and I never had to deal with the know-it-all owner!! Sometimes dogs are just easier to communicate with than people