Hey there,

Quick question, How often do you train with gunfire and does that kill the rest of your training that day?

I just took my dog to the firing range and qualified with the M9 fired off 50 rounds and left the whole prosses took about 5 min so he wasn't exposed to the noise that long. After the first round he jumped up on me so i had to put the gun down and calm him down. After that he was good in the heel till about half way through and then kind of cowered behind me and looked the other way. We do train with blanks but the blanks are no where near as loud as the M9. Also my dog was death pretty much the rest of the day, that made the train search extremely difficult. The only thing i can think of is to get some bigger blanks. Any recommendations?

Good story! And more useful than you give yourself credit for Mike!

I am fortunate, my german shorthair pointer in my signature line tolerates a 12 ga shotgun fired while at heel with her. Never had any problems.

But, she would also shy away from an unexpected and loud BANG coming out of nowhere. No dog or human is made of stone and can be caught by surprise. Some reaction is expected, how they recover tells us much more about the dog.

Your story reminded me of one of Ed's videos where they use a yellow umbrella in a temperament test. The umbrella was snapped open at a small distance to judge the dog's reaction...which was good. When the tester snuck up on the dog and snapped it open right in his face, the dog was startled, jumped back and acted hesitant. This was a good dog. The second test was unfair.

The gunshots your neighbor exposed your dogs to were also unfair.

If there are ever issues with a dog being gun shy, Mike has the right approach...Take it slow, raise distraction/stress levels in small increments...

EDITED TO ADD:
Michael West - Go to the firing range and run your dog through his obedience at a small distance. Get closer as his confidence goes up. You do not need to throw him in the deep end by firing a gun right next to him to get him used to gunfire. Build him up to it.

Edited by James H. Larkey (07/11/2007 08:54 AM)
Edit reason: ADDED COMMENT

Mike,
Gunfire is tricky...and with a canine's enhanced hearing, you have to walk a careful line in training.

Now I use *loud* blanks ( .38 cal ) but I come no closer than 20 feet to my dog during the firing.

We are acclimating our dogs to gunfire, but to look at the situation honestly, if a dog is by our side and we are forced to open fire, virtually any dog will be startled to a degree. The point of training is to teach the dog to rapidly recover and continue to do it's job.

Does that make sense?

Hey all,

Thanks for the posts.

Well i guess it mostly had to do with going from the blanks (i honestly dont know what cal they are, they fit in are M9's but are no where near as loud.) I would love to go to the range more often but being in the military nothing is simple.

So i guess the best thing is if anyone knows where i can get some blanks for my M9 that will compare to real gunfire?

Edit: and yes Will that makes complete sense.

Mike,
they make 8mm blanks for the fake Beretta auto's but the trouble with 9mm blanks is that they obviously can't make the slide cycle. Are you guys using a BFD with the M9?

Blanks end up always a disadvantage for those of use that use semi-auto's in defensive work ( and let's be honest here, who nowadays use a wheel gun anymore? )

Keep your powder dry!
Will

Will, tricky question here...you might not be able to answer it in public areas:

When training dogs to agress towards danger, how do you teach them to go after the bad guy if several people are all shooting guns? Is it a smell thing? A signal from you towards someone? Or do they just cue off of your line of site so to speak?

I've always wondered how they know which one is the bad guy in a multiple gun shoot out...

 Quote: Mike Morrison

Will, tricky question here...you might not be able to answer it in public areas:

When training dogs to agress towards danger, how do you teach them to go after the bad guy if several people are all shooting guns? Is it a smell thing? A signal from you towards someone? Or do they just cue off of your line of site so to speak?

I've always wondered how they know which one is the bad guy in a multiple gun shoot out...

The proper response to gunfire is no response. We use the term, gun green and gun shy. Gun shy is a problem. Gun green means the dog has not been exposed to it. We use confiscated 38's the blanks are quite loud. Of course, like one poster stated, we start the gunfire at a distance while the dog is occupied in some sort of training or play. At some point in training both the handler and the dog will be firing during training. When we were training dogs for Viet Nam, we used ground burst simulators, the real military M-80's, lots of 38 and M 16 blanks. There was always some kind of gunfire or explosions going on. Doesn't the military do that any longer???

DFrost

Yes, you deffently want to ease your dog into gunfire. You want to start at a set distance away and work your way closer to your dog. Untill you are firing with your dog in the heel or down right next to you. I have never had a problem with gunfire and Allen. Before we went to the range i poped of a few blanks and he dident even twitch. I have no problem with him jumping up on me after we fired the M9 i wasn't expecting that big of a difference between the blanks and the live rounds.

And D. Frost is completely correct as far as the reaction to gunfire goes i don't want any. If its a fire fight then i am going to be shooting, when he drops his gun and starts running then thats when i am going to use the dog.

Will - The blanks we have now fit into are M9s that we have on us. And sadly we can only fire one at a time and then re-load so it wouldn't be a step down if i got the 9mm blanks, it would deffently be better if i could fire off a few rounds at a time but if i could get him use to the level of noise that would be a improvement.

ah, thanks guys...I hunted with dogs my whole life and never saw a dog that was gun shy, ever...they knew when a gun went off, they were fixing to be fed

I just wondered how the dogs distinguish between friendlies and non-friendlies, all having guns, but I understand now.