Hi all --

We are sure that our 11 month old cocker spaniel puppies are ready for a food change. We are still dealing with behavioral problems, but they recently started eating the walls and the paint on my doors. I feel they are not getting enough nutrition in their puppy food (altho I know some of this is behavioral!!). any thoughts on the best food to go on to? We have them on Science Diet puppy small bites. They are both in fine health, but I just think they are ready for a change. There are so many options -- our old cocker kept becoming allergic to her food. These girls (so far) show no signs of that, but it is time for a change. Any ideas?? We used to feed our other dog Dick Van Patten's Nature's Balance -- it was the only thing she did not become allergic to! Has anyone used it? Seemed like a good product -- Thanks for your help. Kristen Ryan

A lot of people on this site (myself included) feed their dogs an all-natural raw food diet. They/we are therefore not that keen on kibbles. And Science Diet, in particular, is thought to be one of the worst.
Check out leerburg.com articles on raw food, or the specific discussions on this site about raw food and commercial pet food.If you surf around just a bit you'll find good advice.

Raw is the best to go!

I think all of the destructive behavior is training or boredom. Stuff like that can be hard to fix since it usually happens when you're not there. I'm sure others will have some tricks for you.

X-tra exercise to alleviate some energy can go a long way. Do ya'll go for walks? Jogs? Fetch?

Any reason they're not crated when you're away?

A raw diet is definately the best way to go. There is tons of info on the web and some really good books to purchase. I'm a big fan of Tom Lonsdale. http://www.rawmeatybones.com/ Both of his books are very good. "Work Wonders" has the info on feeding and "Raw Meaty Bones" is about the pet food industry and health problems that come about from their grain heavy products.

http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm#feed

Here is some info that is on this site. It also list some of the better dog food companies if you would rather go the kibble route. I didn't see Nature's Variety on the list, but they have a meat based kibble that I use to feed. I got good results with my dog eating it.

I haven't heard of the food you mentioned. They sure do like potatoes. Vegan dogs? Can those words be used in the same sentence?

I would definately get away from Science Diet as fast as you can. Very grain heavy and made with the cheapest ingredients possible. Vets like to push it for the 40% profit margin. ANY on the list in the leerburg link will be better, especially if you can get away from grains. Grain free foods will probably help your older dog with some of those allergies. Worth a shot.

Edited by Michael_Wise (08/06/2007 11:02 PM)
Edit reason: attempt at humor

definitely go the raw diet route, i have compared my pups to there litter mates that were raised by a guy feeding them only science diet, he has allergy problems and has been in and out of the vet for various reasons, and i my 2 tower over there litter mates, they are huge compared to the others. all except 1 who is also feeding raw and is more fat then big.

definitely raw!
and crate ur buggers when u not watching them!

Thanks Michael --
I agree that their behavior is boredom -- and definitely training since we do not put the time in that we need to. We did not realize the work involved in having 2 puppies!. I do walk them - 2X a day. And I work at home so I am here most of the time with them. however, I am extremely busy so I do not watch them 24/7. I do crate them at times during the day but am trying to get them used to being in the house, and not being destructive!! I do feel that the eating of the dry wall is more than behavioral, which is why I thought a change in diet would be an idea to think about. That is beyond chewing -- like shoes and pillows. It seems as if they are maybe missing something nutritionwise -- just a thought. I understand the idea of the raw food. However, I can barely feed my husband and I these days so it does not fit easily into my rather hectic schedule to make their food. I will look at the food suggestions on this site. I appreciate your response - I have found this forum to be the most helpful place!! Thanks again -- Kristen Ryan
PS -- The food I wrote about was created by the actor Dick Van Patten. he is an animal activist and the food seems to work quite well. It is a single source protein and was very helpful with our older dog (who has since passed). She had terrible food allergies and this was the one food that never bothered her. Thanks! K

Kristen,

As far as the destructive behavior, get used to crating the dogs any time you cannot watch them for at least another 6 months, and probably another year. Exercise will help, and not just a walk or two. You need to get their tongues hanging and get them panting hard. Two ball, or anything they like will do this. A tired pup is a well behaved pup. For food, get off the Science Diet yesterday. Quite frankly it's awful food. No wonder your one has allergies. Raw makes a world of difference, but does require a time commitment. If you will feed kibble, Solid Gold, Canidae, Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul, Wellness, Eagle Pack, Royal Canin, Flint River Ranch, Timberwolf, and Orijen are good kibbles. You can find more in the Whole Dog Journal. Basically you are looking for a "holistic" kibble with only human grade ingredients with no by products that have a protein source (i.e. MEAT) listed as at least the first two ingredients. By way of comparison, these are the ingredients for what you are currently feeding...

Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Brewers Rice, Fish Oil, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


You are feeding corn and soy beans with a little chicken byproduct (This means all of the chicken that's not really edible) mixed in. Here are the ingredients for Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul, one of the more affordable quality kibbles out there...

Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, ocean fish meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, egg product, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, choline chloride, dried chicory root, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-carnitine, Enterococcus faecieum, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

With this you are feeding mostly chicken, turkey, and fish with no byproducts and no CORN.

I agree with John's posting above if you can't feed RAW. I won't feed raw so I feed Canidae. Innova and Solid Gold are quite good also. Chicken Soup is manufactured by Diamond Pet Foods which was involved with the recent recalls. Stick with a kibble manufacturer that guarantees that they do not use any imported ingredients in their pet food. Natural Balance is also made by Diamond and has had recalls.

I have never had a problem with Canidae- Skin/coat looks great, no allergies, no poop problems, teeth are nice and white. I have a female GSD and a male Rhodesian Ridgeback. Good luck.

I agree 110% with everyone's comments about Science Diet, which is (IMO) one of the absolute worst of the crap foods.

We have had many threads here addressing concerns about Hills. From now on I'm going to be careful always to add that Hills = Science Diet. I'm afraid that has not been clear.

Kristen: Natural Balance isn't the worst food, http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/UltDog.html#Ingredients

but it's not the best either. I feed RAW, but if I couldn't feed RAW I would probably feed Innova EVO:
http://www.naturapet.com/brands/evo.asp