In mine and Anka's quest for a wonderful world around the house obedience training has obviously come into play. In the training we have done the "stay" command has never come into play. It has always been sit or down. With the expectations being if I say sit you sit till released and the same for down.

As a young puppy the reward was just for sitting and immediately after the action. As she has gotten better at the commands the reward comes longer after the action.

Is there any reason to use the stay command? She does very well at both commands at 10 months of age. We use a mixture of praise and toys for reward as her food drive is no where near her praise and prey drives.

Even though the stay command is used in AKC obedience it isn't really necessary. When I compete in AKC I just repete the sit or platz command when I leave the dog.

I don’t use a stay… sit is sit and down is down… and you don’t move from either until you are released.

I have noticed some dogs who are left in a sit and then told to stay will slink into a down after a while. I’ve watched these dogs remain in that down under extreme distraction…. IMO the dog is doing what he was told to do last… stay… and he’s doing a great job at it!

I think if you adopt the mindset that the sit and down commands are to be adhered to until released, you are training with less potential conflict.

This never even occurred to me before reading this thread. It makes perfect sense though now that I think about it. One less command to teach and one less command to confuse the dog seems logical though. I'll definitely be using this tip.

~Magdalena

I agree, sit means sit & down means down, however; you do need a "steh" command in the stand out of motion exercise in schutzhund.

I was taught that ‘stay’ is really a double command and can be confusing to the dog. As you said, he may forget what the original command was. However, if you put your dog in a sit or a down and then use the hand signal for ‘stay’ (open palm), is this considered confusing, unnecessary, or a double command?

 Quote: Jan Williamson

if you put your dog in a sit or a down and then use the hand signal for ‘stay’ (open palm), is this considered confusing, unnecessary, or a double command?

A hand signal is a command, no different from a verbal one.

Okay, that makes sense. So, basically, "stay" is not a part of your vocabulary, correct?

 Quote: jan williamson

So, basically, "stay" is not a part of your vocabulary, correct?

Correct!

I do choose not to use the "stay" command, remember that dogs do not generalize- unless you teach them to stay, then don't expect them to stay. A stay involves a release command letting your dog know that he is done staying, or another command for him to follow (down or engage).

I am not saying you have to use "stay" but if you expect your dog to automatically stay when you ask him to "sit" or "down", practice the duration, distance, and under distractions and ALWAYS release, don't just allow the dog to casually move when he's ready. If you don't release, you'll have a dog wandering "did he mean to stay this time too?" and you won't have reliable stays.

I use stay commands because I do not care if he moves if I ask him to "sit", unless I also ask him to "sit","stay". This would not be a double command since, "sit" only means put your butt on the ground. Yeah, I want him to probably sit for a couple seconds, but it's not a formal thing, there is not a release. "Stay" is formal and includes a release.

Just my thoughts...it's really your preference of how you want to train.