hi all

i looked for other posts on this but couldn't get a clear answer to my questions.

i have read different views about this some saying its ok to use the method others saying it shouldnt be used and could damage ur dog. but i regard leerburg info as the best.
so here goes...
topic : ALPHA ROLL

1. When is it acceptable to use this method?

2. What are the implications of this method?

3. What does this method cause the dog to feel?

4. What is the correct way of using this method?

Thats all i can get to 4 now.
Reason i might want to use this is as follows...
i have 2 GSD pups of 7 months old now. the male is doing well in training and doesnt jump up on me unless i tell him to.(will do this when im sitting and i want him to come get some attention)
the female however will jump against me hard or grab my leg between her legs, and every morning she will jump up at me and bite the air and try and nip my hands.
i have tried pushing her off and being ascertive when verbally correcting her, i have tried leash correcting her bcoz she alwasy has a drag line on. i have even tried being surprising by either grabbing her under her legs and lifting her off her feet when she does this or spinning around getting her to fall and then holding her to the ground. nothing seems to phase her. she just keeps doing it. and when she was smaller i could still handle it, but she is getting bigger and her paws hit me in places that hurt a hell of a lot and i still wana hav kids.lol. and i so far have been able to lift my hands above her reach but she will soon be able to reach it.
so i read that this jumping and nipping is an attempt at testing my dominance over her. i must admit i was much harder on the male from the beginning than i was on her but thats bcoz she was always much smaller and shy..and i had to be careful with her and help her out of her shyness. but let me tel u ..she is no longer shy...she is hyper and full of energy...she is the type of dog that could run up and down full speed all day ..just needing a abreak to coll off and have sum water!

anyways back to my point...bcoz she is testing my dominance, would it be ok for me to use the alpha roll on her and will it work to stop her from jumping and nipping the air. she only does this to me!!

 Quote: yusrie khondker

topic : ALPHA ROLL

1. When is it acceptable to use this method?

2. What are the implications of this method?

3. What does this method cause the dog to feel?

4. What is the correct way of using this method?

These are just my opinions...
1) NEVER
2) You are risking an extremely bad bite
3) That you are a bully
4) None

Now, as to your actual question regarding your female: Are the dogs crated? If not, they should be. It's one of the best things you can do for your dogs. Crating them allows you (the pack leader) to decide when it's time to greet in the morning. With the female, just talk with her calmly during your morning routine. Then, when YOU are ready, get ready to open the crate by making sure that you position yourself in such a way that IF she jumps, it's on the side of your leg.

If she jumps, bump her off saying "No." Calm and certain. If it looks like she's going to jump again, step into her quickly, taking away the space she was going to jump into.

Crates are a safe place for the dog. A place for them to "chill out," or go for rest that is out from under-foot.

Luck!
-J

thanx, they are not created, they are outside in a fenced yard in individual enclosures, and each has there own kennel.
when i greet them in the morning it goes as follow, i get to the door of the enclosure and she will sit calmly w8ing...once im in her mood changes..she switches from a calm passive patient dog into a hyperactive bounce up and down the wall kind of dog...and i have tried the push her off and tell her no while staring her down method...i make eye contact and let her kno im serious..4 a second she will look at me and then she will just jump into me anyway...and the being hit in the balls is what made me turn and realise when i do that she falls off...

 Quote: jim thomas

If it looks like she's going to jump again, step into her quickly, taking away the space she was going to jump into.

I've never heard this before but it sounds like a great idea. I can see an alpha dog doing this, face up, chest out, ready to jack slap the other dog if it tries again.

I also agree with Jim on the Alpha rolling. We did this with our chow and it set us up for a lifetime of dealing with an extremely dominant dog. It may work when they are small but they get bigger and are harder to control in this manner. This gives them the confidence that you are not the alpha plus it pisses them off. The way it was put to me was the alpha does not do this in the wild and it is an unfair method that the dog reacts to negatively. This sounds more like an obedience issue as you didn't control it when she was smaller because you could handle it.

What I did for jumping up was grab the front feet and hold them up so the dog is standing upright and tell them "NO" and don't let go. They'll try to pull away and you tell them something like "No paw" or "No Jump" or "No Hump" (sorry, that one slipped ). After she tries to get away and sees you are in control and will not tolerate her behavior, let her down and look her in the eye and tell her "Go" or "Away" or whatever. Actually I'd keep her on a leash when out of the crate until she recognizes you as alpha, and not a drag leash...you have the other end.

My sister had her male great dane over the other day and my male min American eskimo tried humping him. It was funny because on his back feet his nose barely comes up to her dogs thighs. Finally the dane laid down and strummer jumped on his back and went to town. Although it was absolutely hilarious I had to make him stop. He's never been dominant but it seemed as though he was ascerting himself.

I am looking at this subject with great interest because my dog Nickie has always been one to jump up when he gets too "amped up". He will also try nipping at our hands, arms, etc.

We have tried turning quickly away so he falls but it just makes him come back even harder.

We have tried taking his front paws in our hands and walking him backwards to catch him off balance or just holding him up on his back legs and firmly telling him no. He just comes back for more.

About the only thing that works (temporarily) is to have him on his prong collar with a drag line & when he jumps up, give a sharp jerk downward with the drag line and tell him "NO". It's not always easy to grab the drag line or get hold of it close enough to his collar to do this.

He is 11 months old now and weighs about 72 lbs so he is a handful and has always been!

He is also crated but gets two one-mile walks each day.

 Quote: diane joslin

We have tried turning quickly away so he falls but it just makes him come back even h
About the only thing that works (temporarily) is to have him on his prong collar with a drag line & when he jumps up, give a sharp jerk downward with the drag line and tell him "NO".

this is exactly my problem, if i catch her the 1st time because i kno its gona happen i let her fall and i tell her no, all that happens is he takes a second to think then comes at me harder...

once i pushed her off me so hard i pushed her all the way over and she fell onto her back..i felt real bad and thought i might have hurt her..but she stopped..ddnt come back...but the next day she did it again.
this only happens in the morning when she sees me the 1st time for the day. she doesnt do it the rest of the day.

i appreciate all the suggestions, but so far its what ive tried already..

and just to comment on the fact that i let her do it when she was smaller...i never allowed her to do it, it could just handle it then, from the 1st time she did it i have tried to stop it. its just that im getting desperate now, bcoz soon she will be knocking me off my feet the way she jumps up on me..
and even though i kno she wouldnt bite me to hurt me the times when i do get nipped it still hurts, doesnt break the skin but it hurts.

I have written and warned people against Alpha rolls on my web site (use the site search function on the menu bar), I have also warned people against them in my training DVD's.

Unless you are a professional Alpha rolls are dangerous to the person that is doing them. There is a women I know of in California that tried it on her German Shepherd and she ended up with over 100 stitches in her face. I know of a others who end up getting bit in the arms.

Those people who recommend an Alpha Roll lack experience and a clear understanding of dog aggression. Anyone who recommends them should be disregarded - it's a drop dead stupid training method!!!

If you have a problem with a dog that is jumping up use a remote collar and low level stimulation. The problem is solved on day one. Get my DVD on remote collar training http://leerburg.com/318.htm and a Dogtra 1700 collar http://leerburg.com/1700.htm

WOW, a post from ed...thanx...
like i said i had read different views about it and i tried to search on the site but couldnt get an exact answer to the questions.

cool...the alpha roll i completely wiped and will never be used..

i will try the remote collar, although i must say i didnt want to go the shocker method with them...i really wanted them to respond well to other methods...but it looks like i will have to be harsher with her.

Thank u Ed.

OK - looks like I will have to start saving up my money for the remote collar and DVD. I also know that the "alpha roll" is completely out of the question and would never have ever thought to use it, even when Nickie was little and easy to handle. Wondering if the remote collar would help with our other rescue dog Roxie who gets very aggressive in our back yard when she hears the neighbors' dogs outside in their yards. So far correcting her on the dominant dog collar has had no effect when she acts that way.

yeh ..well we in the same boat diane..i also need to save up for the collar...or i could just blow most of this month salary and then just suffer 4 a while ...hehehe