I have a one year old male malinois from good working lines. He is big, around 80 pounds already, super fast, extremely high drive, no serious dominance issues toward me (though he does test me a little, nipping and jumping once in a while). He is making great progress in tracking and obedience. Will start training IPO next month. He is aggressive to male dogs though. It is dominance aggression, and I have not managed to socialize him from it.

I only have him off leach in areas where I think I will not meet other people/dogs. But on two instances I have been surprised by other dogs (both times on leach with their owner). My dog has ran up to them (ignored my command and verbal reprimand for not obeying) and checked the dog out. Finding out it is a male, he starts domineering, and it takes about 2 seconds for a fight to erupt.

I know I should have had the dog under control and that I should not have had him off leach before he can be recalled 100%. But...

My question is regarding how I have broken up these two fights. In both instances the owners have been female, the dogs about the same size as mine, and as said, they have been on leach, under control. I have stepped into the fight and grabbed my dog on the cheeks and ripped him off into the air and slammed him on his back on the grass, at the same time I have hit him on the neck with his leather collar (last time a couple hours ago, I was unlucky and hit him with the hook of the collar). The dog is hard and high and seems a bit unaffected by the whole ordeal. The owners of the other dogs seem more rattled by the display however. One woman started crying and ran off with her dog. The other noted my name in case there were any veterinary bills. In both instances I have been quick enough to stop puncture wounds/injury. That is the good of the bad I guess.

I was bitten (one tooth) through the hand on the first instance (before punishing). I know this kind of situation can be dangerous, but I have the advantage of weighing 240 pounds, lean at 6.4 ft, I am fit and quick (done a lot of boxing etc). I know I may be chewed to bits in the worst case scenario, but I can not stand by and watch my dog eat through other peoples dogs. Nor have I had time (or the wits about me) to use Ed's tactics.

My concern is if what consequence my brute force display has on the dogs latter behavior. The dog plays with ball and accepts food immediately afterwards and is not displaying "I just killed you" behavior indicating too much punishment afterward. On the other hand he does not seem to get any less dog-dominant. To be honest I feel really bad about correcting my dog like this (I admit being a softy for my four legged friend), and I wonder if it all is experienced as a chaotic, unintelligible painful tumble for him. Last time I also accidentally hit him on the ear with the leach, and got worried I damage his hearing or something (he was shaking his head a little bit afterward).

I am correcting the behavior during and after it has happened. For my correction to be strong enough to stop the unwanted behavior (keeping on going after the other dog) I really have to use force. The dog has never been hurt, but I still feel terrible afterward. So to end my long rant, I just wonder if I am wrong to punish my dog severely in these situations. Should I instead just remove him from the situation?

Obviously I am at fault for not having him under control even in these remote wilderness areas in the first place.

Wow...I'm really at a loss as to what to say.

You are allowing your dog to get into these situations by not using a leash then beating the hell out of him for doing what he's (rightly or wrongly) wired to do. I'm sorry, I just don't get that and it seems totally unfair to your dog, the other dog and it's owner...not to mention being so incredibly dangerous to you.

Keep your dog on a leash, use a dominant dog collar, and you won't have to feel terrible afterward.

I think I would use a leash for awhile.
You are responsible not only for training your dog but also for his saftey.
You must make time for training.

 Quote: Sarah_Morris

Wow...I'm really at a loss as to what to say.

You are allowing your dog to get into these situations by not using a leash then beating the hell out of him for doing what he's (rightly or wrongly) wired to do. I'm sorry, I just don't get that and it seems totally unfair to your dog, the other dog and it's owner...not to mention being so incredibly dangerous to you.

Keep your dog on a leash, use a dominant dog collar, and you won't have to feel terrible afterward.

I don't get it either.

You are subjecting your dog and others to danger and trauma, for no reason at all.

 Quote: bernt lundby

I know I should have had the dog under control and that I should not have had him off leach before he can be recalled 100%. But...

There is no "but."

Mr. Lundby,

In your mind is there a clear distinction between "punish" and 'correct?'

"Should I instead just remove him from the situation?"

Well, lets see... You are responsible for your dog. You are supposed to 'protect' it from danger. You are supposed to anticipate problems and steer your dog away from them.

If your dog was on a leash, or long line with a prong collar, you could have managed both instances without having to "punish" your dog. Zounds! You could have corrected him. Your approach sounds more like revenge than training.

And what punishment did you treat yourself to? I mean, through your attitude and approach to controlling your dog you instigated the instances. What was your punishment?

If your dog is making "great progress - in obedience" then you should have been able to recall him. If you can't recall him you can't just hope you won't happen upon another person and/or dog.

Do you have a clear idea of the liability you are toying with? Your last sentence seems to imply a nod toward responsibility but then you toss in "having him under control even in these remote wilderness areas." You have to have your dog under control.

It is appropriate that I stop here.

I too was bitten when two of mine went at it but I cannot punish them for that. I don't think the punishment thing is working for you so I think it's time for a new method.

Do you have a trainer or someone who could help you with this behavior?? You said you are going to start IPO training next month so I think you may have someone that can help.


The best measure I have is prevention which is key. I have two girls that will go at it (terrier & cattle dog).....I don't allow any "fight" body language at all during their very limited interaction with each other.

Maybe someone can post the link to the way to break up a dog fight that is on this site (I would do it but I stink at it).

Best of luck.

I didn't even read your entire post. But if you are looking for info on how to safely brake up a dog fight read Ed's article on it. Now once you do that. Don't let your dog of leash. If you do. Make sure it is in a fenced in area where you control the all the factors 100%.

If you haven't had time to work on this, then your just being irresponsible? As for the wits, it doesn't take much to watch a video.

Well you guys are really quick to condemn. Very helpful. As I wrote, I realise my mistake in having the dog loose even in such a remote wilderness area. I have also worked systematically on this (controlled dog-exposure) since he was 2 months old, and he has had no traumatic dog experiences before assaulting other dogs on his own.

I punished the dog for disobeying me (not coming when called for). A dog like this must know who is in charge (something my dog clearly does not know in situations like this). I also punished my dog for biting through my hand. I am pretty sure my dog would not recognize me as pack leader if I had backed down in this situation. At the same time I feel really bad about using physical punishment (I am not a violent person).

My question was not if it is right of me to put the dog in a situastion like this, which I of course know is wrong. And the two instances were mistakes I learned from.

But... for example training obedience, the dogs have to like and stay put on a row... if... and this has not happened...yet...my dog breaks rank and attacks another male, how should he be corrected? They are not on a leach in this situation. The same goes for search training where he tracks people by air scent, he is also not on a leach in this situation, he may meet a dog coming with a jogger for example. Again, if it goes wrong and he attacks (and I know he should not be inclined to and in a situation where to do so in the first place), how should i treat him?