Geoff Empey wrote 09/10/2007 11:36 AM Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mix? #154892 - 09/10/2007 11:36 AM
Geoff Empey Webboard User Reg: 02-07-2007 Posts: 596 Loc: Ottawa Ontario, Canada Offline	As the title says does Calcium Carbonate replace real bone completly in raw diet? I use a premix that includes the CC they say all I need is ground meat, an egg and fish oil and I'm done. When I give the dog regular bones (whole chicken parts) on top of the CC in the mix , should I be worried about her having to much Calcium?
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Sandy Moore wrote 09/10/2007 12:05 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Geoff Empey ] #154895 - 09/10/2007 12:05 PM
Sandy Moore Webboard User Reg: 07-25-2006 Posts: 2665 Loc: AZ Offline	Geoff, don't know the answer to your question, but what I see in not serving the bones with the meat is you've effectively removed the "toothbrush" effect, namely removing tartar and keeping tartar from forming. Very important to have healthy teeth, as unhealthy teeth can lead to other serious problems (besides having unhealthy teeth!). If I understand you correctly however, you still mean to serve bones in addition to the CC...
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Geoff Empey wrote 09/10/2007 12:36 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Sandy Moore ] #154899 - 09/10/2007 12:36 PM
Geoff Empey Webboard User Reg: 02-07-2007 Posts: 596 Loc: Ottawa Ontario, Canada Offline	Quote: sandy moore Geoff, don't know the answer to your question, but what I see in not serving the bones with the meat is you've effectively removed the "toothbrush" effect, namely removing tartar and keeping tartar from forming. Very important to have healthy teeth, as unhealthy teeth can lead to other serious problems (besides having unhealthy teeth!). If I understand you correctly however, you still mean to serve bones in addition to the CC... Yes I try to pass her chicken parts RMB a couple of times a week on top of the mix and the RAW that I get from my farm contact. Well I get 2 types one chicken lamb based with tripe and offal which I find has some ground chicken bones in it, and the other which is mostly 50% fish with tripe etc. I assume that the ground bones wouldn't have the teeth cleaning effect that the RMBs would? I'm just a little worried that she may get to much calcium combining the mix with RMBs, is there such a thing as to much calcium?
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Sandy Moore wrote 09/10/2007 12:51 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Geoff Empey ] #154902 - 09/10/2007 12:51 PM
Sandy Moore Webboard User Reg: 07-25-2006 Posts: 2665 Loc: AZ Offline	Yes, there can be too much calcium, I just don't know how much is too much, or how the amount should change with the dog's age. Hopefully Connie or another of our resident nutrition experts can answer this. I'd like to know also.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/10/2007 01:20 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Geoff Empey ] #154907 - 09/10/2007 01:20 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Geoff Empey As the title says does Calcium Carbonate replace real bone completly in raw diet? I use a premix that includes the CC they say all I need is ground meat, an egg and fish oil and I'm done. When I give the dog regular bones (whole chicken parts) on top of the CC in the mix , should I be worried about her having to much Calcium? There is definitely such a thing as hypercalcemia. The condition is more often associated with a malignancy, Addison's disease, etc., but also with hypervitaminosis D from oversupplementation. Regardless, hypercalcemia is not good, just as hypocalcemia is not good. Calcium carbonate is one of the best forms for supplementing boneless meat, and yes, if it's in the correct ratio, it replaces the calcium in the bones. I don't know what mix this is or how much calcium it supplies. Do the directions say to use boneless meat, and give you an amount? I would then assume that the CC included was figured on the meat having no calcium. I would speak to someone at the company (not the receptionist with the pre-typed answers) about how much RMB would be safe to use along with the mix. Dogs need about 900 mg. of calcium per pound of food.
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Jenni Williams wrote 09/10/2007 01:20 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Geoff Empey ] #154908 - 09/10/2007 01:20 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Quote: geoff empey  Quote: sandy moore Geoff, don't know the answer to your question, but what I see in not serving the bones with the meat is you've effectively removed the "toothbrush" effect, namely removing tartar and keeping tartar from forming. Very important to have healthy teeth, as unhealthy teeth can lead to other serious problems (besides having unhealthy teeth!). I assume that the ground bones wouldn't have the teeth cleaning effect that the RMBs would? Hey guys, don't forget that it's not just the "toothbrush effect" w/RMBs to consider. Raw-fed dogs produce enzymes that keep their teeth clean also. That, in addition to the fact that you're not feeding any grains is why their teeth are clean-not the literal cleaning from chewing on the bones. So, I wouldn't stress TOO much about it.
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Carol Boche wrote 09/10/2007 01:25 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Sandy Moore ] #154910 - 09/10/2007 01:25 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Do you have to feed the pre-mix everyday? I am wondering if you just fed RMB's a few days a week along with the mix on the other days if you'd be alright?? I feed my Mal ground chicken (bone in) but I also have a couple people that donate ground meat (w/o bone) that I feed her as well...(she is a severe gulper so I grind). On the days that she gets ground meat, I add calcium, but when I am feeding the meat with bone, I omit the calcium.......She seems fine and the vet is happy with her and her x-rays looked great. I do give her recreational bones twice a week for her teeth and she also chews on her kongs and orbees alot as well...... Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Jennifer Coulter wrote 09/10/2007 02:06 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Geoff Empey ] #154920 - 09/10/2007 02:06 PM
Jennifer Coulter Webboard User Reg: 04-02-2007 Posts: 749 Loc: Canada Offline	Don't forget that it is fine to feed some meat only meals with no added calcuim or bone. For example if you fed twice a day and fed chicken necks/backs in the morning, a meat only meal in the evening with no added calcium would be fine. Same with if you fed all RMB one day and meat only the next. Remember that wolves would eat a lot of meat without bone consuming a deer! Even a rabbit or chicken carcass has a lot more meat than edible bone. Some of the bone meals we feed our dogs are bone heavy IMHO (such as necks, backs of chicken and turkey). I just found out that my Raw food provider uses only turkey necks and wings in the ground turkey she was giving me, I had thought I was getting whole ground turkey. No problem to feed some meat only stuff to balance out all the bone! Now if you wanted to feed meat only over a longer period, yes you would have to supplement the calcium for sure.
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Sandy Moore wrote 09/10/2007 03:05 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #154930 - 09/10/2007 03:05 PM
Sandy Moore Webboard User Reg: 07-25-2006 Posts: 2665 Loc: AZ Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland ...Dogs need about 900 mg. of calcium per pound of food. You're too cool, Connie
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Carol Boche wrote 09/10/2007 03:13 PM Re: Calcium Carbonate = bone replacemnet in raw mi [Re: Sandy Moore ] #154932 - 09/10/2007 03:13 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Quote: Sandy Moore  Quote: Connie Sutherland ...Dogs need about 900 mg. of calcium per pound of food. You're too cool, Connie DITTO!! And, I found out that even supplementing I was not giving quite enough, so since I was giving it with every (boneless) meal, I should be good (since I feed meat bone in also) and will start doing it correctly now.... (out of all the supplements, calcium is one that really confuses me.....dernit) Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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