How would you have handled this? Here's the situation. My friend was over with her 18 month old GSD and Rade my 7 month old male GSD, and we were in the backyard. Rade (the 7 month old) was playing/collecting all the toys in the backyard. My friend reached down to grab a tug toy off the ground and Rade went for it. She got scared and started swinging the toy around and making very quick movements. I guess that triggered his prey drive and he was determined to get the toy. He missed the toy and got my friends elbow, natural instinct kicked in, as he was acting very agressive, and she attempted to kick him and that move just pissed him off. He swung around to her other side and latched on. I had to pry him off of her.

Besides the quick movements being a stupid thing, is there anything else that could have prevented this incident from happening? How should Rade have been corrected (if any should have been given)?

BTW, Rade comes from Czech lines, and has a very high prey. Completely different than my friends American pet lines shepherd.

You are asking if he should have been corrected?

7 months seems young for an aggressive bite like that.

There is a difference between an accidental bite in “Prey” drive and a counter attack.

I’m sure you will get responses, but you might want to give more background on the training you have done and what your plans are for the dog (show, Agility, SCH etc.)

First off, no toys on the ground with two dogs in the yard. Bad idea.
Second, you should have picked up the toys, your friend should have stayed out of it.
Third, your friend should never have reacted like she did, and I would have been totally P*ssed off if she had tried to kick my dog.
Fourth, you need to get control of your dog. You can't let your dog take control like that.
Too late to speculate whether or not the dog should have been corrected, the indcident is over.
You need to read Ed's articles on dominant/aggressive dogs, and it probably wouldn't hurt to get some of his dvd's. They are all listed right here on the Leerburg website.

 Quote: aleida cebreco

I guess that triggered his prey drive and he was determined to get the toy. He missed the toy and got my friends elbow, natural instinct kicked in, as he was acting very agressive, and she attempted to kick him and that move just pissed him off. He swung around to her other side and latched on. I had to pry him off of her.

Besides the quick movements being a stupid thing, is there anything else that could have prevented this incident from happening? How should Rade have been corrected (if any should have been given)?

Quick movements may in fact be a stupid thing in that situation, however, it is a reality in the world. IMO, it was your responsibility to get the dog under control the minute you noticed he was determined to get that toy, given that you noted he was acting very aggressive. Your responsibility to teach her not to flail the toy (people who don't know these dogs are good at that, flailing up above their head, and of course not knowing to expect a jump and how to coordinate their movements--hell, I still take hits sometimes even KNOWing what to expect) OR to call your dog off at that point.

What *did* you do the second after you "pryed" him off her???

Besides the stupid things your friend did which you couldn't control, future calls for no toys in friends' hands and your dog on leash when visitors come over.

Don't leave prey items such as the tug on the ground. These have a specific use, they're not toys. Even toys shouldn't be left all over the place, although I admit I sometimes fail at that. But I never leave tugs out.

As was posted, no toys laying around or thrown with 2 dogs together. Especially when they don't live together and you don't know what to expect from the visiting dog.

To be honest, your friend got what they deserved panicking around a dog like that.

When I have people come over with dogs, I never assume that they are going to know what to do if one of my dogs goes into drive. SO all of my dogs are put up when people come to visit.

People that hide for my Dutch, who is a bark alert are taught how to present his reward. Some of them I have hide high so that they can throw his reward at first and then play tug with him.

You know what your dog is capable of and you have the responsibility to keep visitors "safe".

When people think they want to play tug with my dogs, I demonstrate the game first. 99% of them say "Ahhh, nevermind" after they see what the dog does while playing. The remainder that still want to try it are taught how to do it and the dog is on a long line. Some people I just flat out say no to.

And yes, toys laying around is a recipe for disaster, as you witnessed.

I hope your friend is okay. Sounds like the elbow bite was an accident (dog missed the toy) but, sounds like the second one was a "screw you for kicking me" bite.
I would have been highly pissed and totally unsympathetic towards the "friend" and would not have corrected my dog for that.

Dogs are flight or fight, so now you know that your dog is probably not going to back down, so it is up to you to take control and keep control of the situations you put your dog into.

As usual, I agree w/Carol. I would get smarter friends who don't kick my dog, or let the dogs take care of the offenders themselves, lol.

The OP is dead-on with the fact that her Czech dog is quite different from her friends stuffed robotic puppet pup. I have an 8mo old Czech pup who would do exactly the same thing...and would've done it much younger. I cannot even walk by him w/something in my hands, including my Chihuahua, lol. You try to kick him away, and you are in for it. I don't think 7mos is that young for this behavior in many dogs of these lines.

Keith, I'm not picking on you, but you're the one who said 7mos is young for aggression like that, and I disagree. I am guessing your white GSD is probably not of really high-drive working lines???? 7 mos seems young, but they all mature at different rates, and I don't see this as serious aggression, at least until the point where he was kicked, and then, well...do I blame him?

Agree with both Carol and Jenni, everything they said - especially when it comes to the dog being kicked for doing what you've done with it (playing with the tug). Great posts, ladies.

Thanks for the replies!!

Connie- yes I am asking if he should have been corrected for the given situation and what type of correction should have been given.

Keith- The accidental bite was purely prey driven but when he was kicked at he naturally went into defense and meant to bite.

I plan on working him in either French Ring or Schutzhund, I havent really made up my mind yet. So in the meantime I have been doing basic drive building with him (I have NEVER introduced any type of defense work).

Janice- Over time toys in the back yard accumulated and I guess he was trying to show off to the other dog and found and collected all the toys (not trying to excuse my lazyness). I should have picked them all up, it was completely my fault. He will be leashed and under control whenever we are in the company of others.

Michele- It all happened in a matter of seconds. The first time he went for the toy I told my friend to drop it or throw it, but she was already freaking out, and didnt hear me. By the time I got ahold of him, he was already latched on to her hip. It happened SO fast.

He got a very good correction once I got him off. I was just curios as to how you all would have handled the situation.

Sandy- Yes, he will be leashed when visitors are over from now on. It was an old torn up tug that used to be Ryot's that he found outside. Its one of those firehose tugs (I dont like them, and forgot it, among many others toys, was outside).

Carol- My friend was so used to Ryot temperament, so assumed Rade was the same. I should have explained how they are completely different dogs and Rade temperament is stronger and more confident.

up until now, I was not aware of this side of him. He's not shown agression to humans (except for the occasional bark or grumble). This was definately a newsflash to me, and now I know what kind of responsibilities I hold as the owner.

When I play tug with him, he displays the same behaviors he did with my friend (that startled her), at first. In my eyes it is not agression, but I can easily see when someone can percieve that behavior (jumping, barking, hearing the teeth slam shut as they miss the toy, lol) as agression.

Jenni- Rade is completely different than Ryot (west german lines) whose drive was mediocre and agression was non-existant. He definately proved that he isnt going to take crap, and I respect that, and now I must make sure I have full control over him 100% of the time, and explain to people that his temperament will not allow for roughhousing and threatening gestures. At least I now know that he's not some possesed, evil spawn pup, lol, and his response to the kicking was some-what justifyable. I have my work cut out for me.


Thanks again for the replies!!!