I hope someone can help me understand what I did wrong here-

I was attempting to use the e-collar to stop my 15 mo GSD from going after the cat. I have the Leerburg e-collar dvd and have studied it several times. I conditioned the dog to the collar for 2 weeks before beginning.

It seems the dog had no idea the stim was coming from me, she thought it was coming from the floor. She was on a 7-foot leash snapped to the dead ring of a fur saver and I was giving "leave-it" and "no" commands followed by a stim, moving up from her working level (with no distractions)of 40 (Dogtra 1700) to 75 in increments of 5. She paid absolutely no attention to me and became hectic, trotting back and forth from one side of the couch to the other (cat was behind the couch). I finally gave up and gave her about a level 7 correction with the prong, which settled her enough to stay in a down and stop trying to get the cat.

Several hours later I took her over to a friend's to try to use the e-collar to get her to leave strange dogs alone. She goes bananas when she sees another dog, not aggressive, just wants to play. Same thing, she got very agitated by the stim and ran around me in circles at the end of the leash. She did not look at me or seem to want to be close to me. I gave various commands- sit & down, in an effort to get her to do something I could praise for to no avail.

For the rest of the day I kept her tethered to me and she wanted absolutely nothing to do with me, laid down as far away from me as she could get. She acted normal the next day, but I am concerned about what I may have done to our bond.

At this point I am not considering using the e-collar again without the guidance of someone experienced with it. I am wondering if I should go back to the beginning and start over again with basic ground work?

Sorry for the long post, I would be very grateful for any suggestions!
Thank you,
Sarah

Sounds like the dog is confused, doesn't know what the correction means and is running around trying to figure out how to make it stop.

I just purchased the Dogtra 1700.

I plan to order Ed's DVD before I ever stim Starbuck. I don't want to start off on the wrong foot. She is going to wear the collar (power off) on and off for a week or two while the DVD arrives. I want to make sure she is not "Collar Wise", I'm also mixing it up with a flat and prong collar.

I was actually reading the Dogtra manual (that never happens). They don't suggest you use the collar for aggression against other dogs or people. I assume cats should be included. This has been discussed on this board before, search for it.

Hi Sarah,

It sounds like the dog had no idea what was expected of her, didn't know the correction came from you, didn't know it was a correction, didn't therefore know it was for something she did and that it was in her power to stop it. Does she have a sensitive personality to begin with? That seems like a some what panicky reaction based on what you described.

When you say you conditioned the dog to the collar for 2 weeks, what exactly did you do? Was this just getting the dog used to wearing the collar or did you do any active training with it?

I haven't watched the E-collar DVD, but I think the dog would have to be made aware some way that the correction comes from you, that this strange feeling is in fact a correction, and that the dog can work his way around it. I don't think you can just put the collar on the dog, put it in an extreme situation where the dog is in drive and ALREADY ignoring you, and then expect to be able to quite literally zap the problems away. That seems like skipping a bunch of steps.

I would prefer to do some simpler training with the dog in a situation with less distractions, where the dog has the opportunity to "fail" what you KNOW for he knows and learn that the sensation is indeed a correction, comes from you, and just like any correction is in response to a behaviour he can change and therefore turn off the correction.

Sorry if I'm rambling..

It's too bad that she had such a strong reaction to this. I think you should give her some time to recoup. Don't take the collar away, just don't use it. Then try again with low stim levels and with exercises that she will have a chance to correct herself in while not being distracted by something as highly distracting as cats! In fact I'd do the baby steps from basics, with no distractions at first. For one to giver her a chance to over come the previous experience and learn what this is about, but also because you can't afford to "screw" her up even more with what she perceives is mysterious pain that comes from no where while my owner yells at me for some reason.

Wow, read the instruction book.

Are you sure the collar is fitted correctly and the collar and transmitter were fully charged? A level 7 correction working with the prong collar just doesn't jive with a proper charged and fit ecollar on 75 not having a bigtime reaction.

Unless you have some kind of really hard dog, 75 is really high for simple crittering, something is wrong.

I hope this helps you a little more than "wow, read the manual" jeeesh,
AL

I'd be backing up the training and using the collar to reinforce something the dog knows, like coming to you while you are moving backward to encourage her while she is on leash.

I also agree with Al, that 75 seems quite high for a working level. I would bet the collar is only making sporadic contact, hence the confusion. I use the ecollar every day on several different dogs who all have different levels of hardness and reactivity and I don't think I ever come close to using 75 even when they are on the heels of a deer.

Paige, if you don't have any constructive advice based on experience with an electric collar please keep the sarcastic comments to yourself. Sarah has a legitimate question here, so I will strongly suggest you refrain from comments like this in the future.

Could there be a difference in thickness of skin or something similar? I shave my chows neck and put it on him snug so I know he's connected and he won't budge until I hit 90. This has been consistent for the 2 years I've been using the 1700. I stim him at 80 and he won't even pick up his head. I know the equipment is working right because friends and family have tried it and nearly jumped out of their skin.

Anyway, as for the aggression comment, I would never recommend anyone use it for aggression even though I use it. Not that I'm any better, I just took a chance and found a way to make it work. I tried it in small steps and saw the reaction from my dog and how he would respond to it. That is correct in that he may become more aggressive however I prepare for that possibility prior to correcting and only use it in this manner when he is really showing his backside (actually it's the frontside with teeth but you get the picture).

As to the original question I would agree that the dog is confused and more ground work with the collar needs to be done. I think a lot of people skip the extended training recommended and think their dog will get the hang of it. Also, some dogs (and some people) may need a little extra time to figure out the best way to use the collar with their dog. If you feel you hurt your relationship with your dog I would interact with him as you always have, watch the video a few more times (I still watch it to refresh), and try again. I'd bet the training will help your dog understand you still love him and all will be gravy.

Thanks for all the helpful replies, guys, we really appreciate you all taking the time to read and respond.

I charged the collar and remote the day before I used it for 14 hours (as instructed in the manual-yes I actually read it). Prior to that I had not charged it or turned it on.

As far as the fit, I could buckle it one hole tighter, if I go 2 holes tighter she wheezes. Where I have the collar now, I can move the box up and down on her neck about 2 inches, but it won't spin around. After wearing it for an hour or so it drops from right under her jaw to about 1/4 of the way down her neck. Should I go tighter?

For the level, she does not notice the stim at all under 40. She was staring me in the eye as I ran it up to that point and literally did not blink until then. At 40, she blinked both eyes, twitched her neck, and sniffed the ground and her front feet. If I do decide to use it again, I will re-check her working level. Even at 75 she didn't vocalize.

I have continued to put the collar on several times a day, not using it. Perhaps next week I will start using it with the prong during basic ob.

Any additional thoughts/suggestions are welcome!

Thanks again.

Although unlikely, maybe she has a defective collar everyone.

Edited by lee sternberg (10/17/2007 09:25 PM)
Edit reason: forgot a word