enrique muniz wrote 10/17/2007 12:33 AM Czech pedigrees and other q's... #158585 - 10/17/2007 12:33 AM
enrique muniz Webboard User Reg: 03-11-2007 Posts: 248 Loc: Minnesota Offline	Hi guys, I have three questions that maybe someone can help me with. 1. Why is it that in a lot of the Czech pedigrees we find scatered around maybe 1 or 2 show dogs in the mix? Is that to expand the gene pool? 2. Nowadays, is it adviseable to mix lines? For example Czech with DDR or West German or any combination of the three? How does a breeder know which combination of pedigrees would work better whithin or outside their own lines? 3. What does bred 3-3 or 4-3 to such and such dog mean? Thanks for the help and if some of this questions do not belong on this topic I apologize. enrique Brutus ZVV1
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 10/17/2007 12:42 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: enrique muniz ] #158588 - 10/17/2007 12:42 AM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	1. Not sure, someone told me a while ago but I forgot. 2. Mixed lines are common. I don't think there's any pure DDR lines left anymore. 2.b. Breeders know which lines to cross based on experience, a little trial & error, a little luck and often by knowing what each line is known to produce and then choosing another bloodline that would compliment it in some way and make the strong traits stronger. 3. The 2-2 3-3 4-3 etc stuff refers to the linebreeding that took place and how close the linebreeding was done (i.e. which dogs occur in both dogs pedigrees and which generations in the pedigree they appear).
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enrique muniz wrote 10/17/2007 01:03 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #158590 - 10/17/2007 01:03 AM
enrique muniz Webboard User Reg: 03-11-2007 Posts: 248 Loc: Minnesota Offline	Thanks Mike, but what exactly do the numbers represent? Are they generations? For example does 2-2 mean the same dog in the second generation for both sire and dam? Doesn't make sense to me, and honestly I can't figure it out, lol enrique Brutus ZVV1
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 10/17/2007 02:34 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: enrique muniz ] #158596 - 10/17/2007 02:34 AM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	I'm pretty sure this is right, but someone else will tell me if I'm wrong I'm sure Lets say a dog is 3,3-5,4 on Nick. If you look at the pedigree: 3,3: It should show Nick TWICE in the 3rd generation of the sire's half of the pedigree. 5,4: It should show Nick once in the 5th generation, and once in the 4th generation. A 2-2 breeding on Nick would mean that both the sire and dam are son/daughter of Nick.
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AnitaGard wrote 10/17/2007 06:50 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: enrique muniz ] #158602 - 10/17/2007 06:50 AM
AnitaGard Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 353 Loc: Jacksonville, FL, U.S.A. Offline	Quote: enrique muniz Nowadays, is it adviseable to mix lines? For example Czech with DDR or West German or any combination of the three? I believe there was a lot of back-and-forth between East Germany and Czechoslovakia during the Communist era, so a lot of "Czech/Slovak" dogs have DDR in their pedigrees anyway. For example, the sire of one of the great Czechoslovak Border Patrol dogs, Titus z Pohranicni Straze, was brought in from East Germany. Parek
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Betty Waldron wrote 10/17/2007 08:07 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: AnitaGard ] #158610 - 10/17/2007 08:07 AM
Betty Waldron Webboard User Reg: 07-11-2002 Posts: 2679 Loc: North Florida (Live Oak area) Offline	Lines are mixed a lot. Advisable or not, depends on your own preferences. Annabelle is 3/4 Czech. Doc is primarily West German with a couple of DDR lines. Raya is pretty much all West German. I really don't care about the lines as long as it is all working lines....<grin> Betty (Waldron) Mathena http://www.littlerivercanine.com
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Betty Waldron wrote 10/17/2007 08:12 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: Betty Waldron ] #158611 - 10/17/2007 08:12 AM
Betty Waldron Webboard User Reg: 07-11-2002 Posts: 2679 Loc: North Florida (Live Oak area) Offline	Quote: 1. Why is it that in a lot of the Czech pedigrees we find scatered around maybe 1 or 2 show dogs in the mix? Is that to expand the gene pool? Are you referring to recent in the pedigree or a while back? I know a lot of people mix lines trying to find the golden middle. Personally I like the coyote weasely look of my working line dogs and would not want to sacrifce those genetics for a little red. Betty (Waldron) Mathena http://www.littlerivercanine.com
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Betty Waldron wrote 10/17/2007 08:17 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: enrique muniz ] #158613 - 10/17/2007 08:17 AM
Betty Waldron Webboard User Reg: 07-11-2002 Posts: 2679 Loc: North Florida (Live Oak area) Offline	Quote: enrique muniz Thanks Mike, but what exactly do the numbers represent? Are they generations? For example does 2-2 mean the same dog in the second generation for both sire and dam? Doesn't make sense to me, and honestly I can't figure it out, lol enrique This is coming from someone who often hears the words "Your other right" shouted at her on the training field........ Go to the pedigree database and start looking at the pedigrees. It will give you the linebreeding. From the linebreeding, locate the dogs on the pedigree and presto! It will all fall into place!!!!! I'm one of those people that needs the visuals.............. Betty (Waldron) Mathena http://www.littlerivercanine.com
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 10/17/2007 08:50 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: Betty Waldron ] #158618 - 10/17/2007 08:50 AM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	Betty, if you look at alot of Czech pedigrees, even from top working kennels, there are showline dogs 3-5 generations back (closer to 5 usually). I don't remember the reason, it's driving me crazy now. Someone better answer the man soon.
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enrique muniz wrote 10/17/2007 09:09 AM Re: Czech pedigrees and other q's... [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #158623 - 10/17/2007 09:09 AM
enrique muniz Webboard User Reg: 03-11-2007 Posts: 248 Loc: Minnesota Offline	I think you're right Mike. I was looking at my dog's pedigree. He's a son of Xant z Jirkova Dvora and Eimi Ro-Sa. I think here everyone knows about Xant but Eimi has some good dogs too. For example: Cordon An Sat, Adela Venusina Sopka, Iris v Grafental. But then about 5 generations back you see Krisa z Pohranicni straze and Champ. Vilo v. Arminius... Still don't know the reason for this. If someone can let me and Mike know we'd appreciate it! enrique Brutus ZVV1
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