I would like feedback on how best to develop a French brittany with a strong prey drive. I wanted to start a new thread because I'm confused about how much of the drive development advice here can be used for my dog. He will be 16 weeks old in a few days, and is a dominant, assertive pup. I will be training him to be a bird dog who points birds, holds steady, and retrieves shot birds whether dead or crippled. But, he will also be the indoor family dog.

I've been reading both Ed's articles and many posts. As I understand it, when you all train your GSD's for bite work (which is a new concept to me), you want a dog who has a strong prey drive.

How would you handle this in a hunting dog? Here's an example of what I do and what I think goes wrong. We do several sessions of fetch indoors with a puppy bumper (canvas over some sort of foam.)

I toss the bumper, pup retrieves, usually wanting to jump in my arms with bumper. I want him to hold the bumper until he is asked to release it with the command "give". When he "gives" I immediately toss it again. Here's the problem, which is probably a good one to have if I can learn to be a better trainer.

After as few as one toss, the pup is in intense prey drive. To get him to release the bumper I poke him in the groin (nicely) which makes him spit out the bumper into my hand, which is where I want it. (He does not bite at me when I poke hime to get him to release the bumper. I will be phasing this out as he learns what "give" means.)

I toss the bumper again quickly, and usually get a strong bite or two on the arm because he sees my arm movement more easily at this age than he seems to see the bumper movement. By the second toss he is growling and very focused on getting "IT" which generally is whatever is moving. He begins to jump up on me in an attempt to get the bumper as I toss it, and this is where I get another bite or two. I always wear something on my arms, so I'm only bruised. He will also bite me on the leg as part of this whole focus on the game.

I have added a prong collar in the last week, and have him dragging a lead as he retrieves, which lets me stand on the lead to prevent jumping. Should I give him a correction when he bites my arm? Would Ed's Building Drives DVD work for me or only for those of you who are building up to bite work? I want to work toward No Bite work and a soft mouth!

I look forward to your input!

Hi Gayle,

What type of game will you be hunting with your dog? Birds? If so, then working on the hunt drive should be your primary goal (as well as obedience, direction control via hand and voice, or whistle and the out). Obviously the prey drive is there and has become a minor problem as you try to develop it further. Concentrate on the hunt drive and extending the search periods.

Howard

Gayle,
That's good advice from Howard. I wouldn't try to take the toy or play tug because you'll just be met with resistance and a hard mouth. Through O/B work and playing fetch you should be able to work the retrieve in time. Prey drive diminishes as the dog holds on to the toy so let it so you don't get in a battle with him for it. As the pup matures he'll get more focused and if your working O/B with him I'm sure it will work out.

I wouldn't be compulsioning an Out at this point, trade for the toy, with food or a 2nd toy, otherwise you might find that whatever animal he is bringing you in his mouth will be all chewed up as he runs toward you chewing away worrying about having to give up his prey to you.

If you are wanting the dog to hold the prey instead of automatically releasing it, then this is a seperate exercise that you will do later, you teach a seperate "hold" command.

Gayle, I am very new to puppy training, but I read on another post that playing fetch games inside can get a puppy more wound up than playing outside. I know this to be true with my own puppy, who is very prone to chewing on my body parts when we play inside. (and those nips to the legs hurt!) I find I have much better success at directing her drive to an appropriate object when we are outside and she is on a 20' long line. She also doesn't like to 'out', but very readily drops when she is traded for a treat...

Heyo,

I think that 16 weeks may be a little young for a prong, JMHO.

If you are serious about hunting with this dog and are at all interested in competing, try to find a local field trainer to work with. Look for reccomendations from French Brittney club or some such thing. Not all hunting dogs respond to the same type of training.

Best to avoid making handler mistakes with your obviously driven pup! There are probably many great hunt dog forums on line as well. They range from traditional (e-collar/ force fetch) to purely positive, and most being somewhere in between from my limited knowledge.

Hi all,

I had subscribed to this thread (I thought), so didn't check back until now. I checked back thinking there had been no responses! Wrong. Thanks so much everyone.

He'll hunt and retrieve birds.

So I don't get confused, I wanted to ask Howard first about "extending the search period". I'm not sure what that means, though I can guess, and will do my research.

I also need to read up on the "hunt drive."

I am on this board because I've spent a fair amount of time on other boards that are focused on hunting and field trials. I have also contacted a field trial trainer who has been out of town and won't be back for a few days. Because my pup is a pointing dog I've gotten a fair amount of response that I should leave him alone so he will learn to hunt on his own. This sounds silly to me, and I can't live with it, anyway. I know the pup is learning in every interaction he has with me, so I want to learn so I can teach him - since I'm teaching him anyway!

What has helped me on this board is your discussion of drives, and the dogs' working in the drives.

Lynne,

I will try this. In my previous experience training a pup (and previous advice I'd gotten) indoors was recommended over outdoors because it helps maintain the pup's focus, and makes for a quick energy releaser - which obviously isn't working so well with this little guy.

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

Gayle, I am very new to puppy training, but I read on another post that playing fetch games inside can get a puppy more wound up than playing outside. I know this to be true with my own puppy, who is very prone to chewing on my body parts when we play inside. (and those nips to the legs hurt!) I find I have much better success at directing her drive to an appropriate object when we are outside and she is on a 20' long line. She also doesn't like to 'out', but very readily drops when she is traded for a treat...

Jennifer,

I totally agree with you about him being too young for a prong. Having said that... I'm not correcting him with it, per se. I'm letting him correct himself, as in, "jump up to bite me and the dang collar bites the pup back."

This may be wrong, but it has been the only thing that makes a difference. I have held the pup down when he wants to keep biting me only to have him use his very flexible little body (which is getting stronger by the day) to keep biting me. He exposes his groin area to me, and the second I let him go he's back in my face. Literally. He's pretty sure it's all fun, too.

The prong seems to stop him before we get to that point.

Another case in point, he'd like to be with me all the time, and he could be if he stayed down and didn't try to bruise me, the cat, and so on. Again, this is where the prong has made a difference. I can put him on a down by my desk for 20 minutes or so while I work, or have him in the kitchen while I'm cooking, and with the prong a short lead I'm able to make my point about the kind of behavior that is acceptable if he wants to hang out with me.

I really am interested in other people's thoughts on on this, as I am pretty sure I have a happy, balanced, and DRIVEN dog who needs me to understand him so I can direct his drives. That's why I was wondering about the advisability of using Ed's building drives DVD. Maybe just the obedience DVD? Or pup to 8 months? Any thoughts?

The brittany forums are not as clear on the training stuff as you all are... but I know most of you are training for a different game.

 Quote: Jennifer Coulter

Heyo,

I think that 16 weeks may be a little young for a prong, JMHO.

If you are serious about hunting with this dog and are at all interested in competing, try to find a local field trainer to work with. Look for reccomendations from French Brittney club or some such thing. Not all hunting dogs respond to the same type of training.

Best to avoid making handler mistakes with your obviously driven pup! There are probably many great hunt dog forums on line as well. They range from traditional (e-collar/ force fetch) to purely positive, and most being somewhere in between from my limited knowledge.

Hi Gayle,

The fact that your pup has good prey drive doesn't neccesarily mean he has good hunt drive. But, because of his age, if his hunt drive is low you can utilize the high prey drive to build the hunt drive to the best that it can be genetically. Test his desire to hunt to get an idea of where he is at, then you can make the adjustments you need.

Howard