Dog: 10 month old Beagle
Collar: Dogtra 200 NCP Gold

Well, I finally started the correction phase with my dog. I figured I had postponed it long enough and didn’t want to start without an e-collar. I did correct him for pack behavior and gave him corrections from time to time, but I hadn’t yet started a formal correction/distraction phase. He knows sit, down, stay, come, sit/stay and down/stay among other commands.

I’m very happy with the e-collar. My dog is behaving a lot better and my position as pack leader seems to have strengthened.

So, here’s what happened: we were at the park, off leash. The park has two areas which are separated by a road (no cars). One area is the hunting area since the green iguanas are only found there. The other area is full of trees.

Every time we go there I let him have a little fun chasing them. Problem is his instincts kick in and he looses his hearing ability… sort of. I understand this so I don’t give him that many commands when we are in this area.

After about 15 minutes of running around and sniffing, we went to the other area. Obviously he wanted to stay inside the hunting area, but I planned on returning before we left. All the iguanas were hidden already so it was useless to stay there.

We were in the other area for maybe 25-30 minutes, and I decided we would go back to the hunting area for a couple of minutes before we went home. When we were ~50 yards from the hunting area, he bolted. I gave him the stay command and he ignored it. I said ‘no, stay’ waited one second and gave him a ~50 correction with the e-collar (I used the continuous button, but only pressed it for 1.5-2 seconds). He didn’t even feel it. I said ‘no, stay’ again while I increased the intensity of the collar to ~70.

At this point he was about 30 yards from me, but I was running towards him. He didn’t feel the correction either. I got kind of worried so I said ‘no, stay’ again while I turned the intensity of the collar all the way to the max (100). Well he yelped and stopped for a second, then kept on going. I said ‘no, stay’ yet again and nicked him. This time he yelped and stopped. I immediately said ‘good boy!’ and asked him to sit from a distance (while walking towards him), which he did. That made me think he had not shut down from the hard correction, which I confirmed as soon as I got to him.

I wanted to know if I did the right thing. I was kind of upset I had to go to max stimulation, but it seems like every time he picks up a scent I have to increase the stimulation to get him to mind. His attitude hasn’t changed one bit because of the incident.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

From my (limited) understanding, as the dog's drive increases, the level of the correction has to also increase in proportion.

Your Beagle was in drive (hunting, or anticipating the hunt) and therefore you had to administer a harder correction. Ed talks about this in his "Theory of Corrections" article.

If my dog makes a training mistake (lays down while in a sit stay, for instance) the correction I give her will not be the same intensity as one where she is running the fence, being crazy, barking at another dog.

Here is the article: http://www.leerburg.com/corrections.htm Scroll down to the section on "Escalating Corrections" and "Levels of Distraction"

Hope this helps.

Edited by Angela Burrell (11/01/2007 10:08 AM)
Edit reason: add link

I understand what you said about needing a harder correction as the level of distraction increases (that's why I ended up giving him a 100 correction). But I also know dogs shouldn't yelp when given a correction with the e-collar. I'm not sure if this situation (or any) did merit a hard enough correction that would make him yelp. At least he didn't go into avoidance. Thanks for your response.

Did you get the E-Collar DVD? I'm about 30% through watching my DVD (Ed just shocked himself).

Off the cuff, it does not sound like a overcorrection. The dog did yelp, but didn't shut down. And he obeyed the command.

Like I said, I'm not done with the DVD and I have never stimmed Starbuck with the collar yet.

Richard,
If he didn't shut down after the correction then I do not believe you did any harm. Lucy has yelped several times correcting herself on the prong collar and seconds later she is completely normal. I would advise not to give him the chance to disobey you though. I would keep him on a long line until you have completely proofed his recall, including recall under distractions. Giving him the opportunity to ignore you at this point is teaching him that he can ignore you.

As you know I am also a Beagle owner also. When they are in prey drive it is very very difficult to get their attention away from whatever scent they are on or prey they are chasing. This comes from being bred for this for several hundred years. To me it is one of my most frustrating issues with Lucy also.

Keep us up to date on how the E-collar training is coming. If you find it works well with him I may invest in it for Lucy also.

I've read/seen many dogs yelp with a E-Correction from knowledgeable handlers. Mine has never yelped, but has jumped 4ft straight up in the air. I think you did ok.

Richard,

Having a hound breed is so fun....

I do not use e-collar training with my hounds, however, I think that the yelp was one of surprise.

Basically, "I am in drive, I know Dad is telling me something BUT I just cannot stop......YEEEIIIIKKKEESSS...geesh, Dad means business.... I better listen up"

My Lab is hard headed and once he is "on" birds, and I need him to do something, he takes a harder correction. He is SO intent on what he is doing that he let's out a startled yelp, but then looks to me for a signal on what to do. He has never sht down on me at all.
He is getting better when he hears the whistle or our voices, but once in a while, he needs a reminder.

 Quote: Keith Jablonowski

Richard,
I would advise not to give him the chance to disobey you though. I would keep him on a long line until you have completely proofed his recall, including recall under distractions. Giving him the opportunity to ignore you at this point is teaching him that he can ignore you.

Keith: His recall is not even close to being where I'd like, but ever since I got the e-collar it has improved 200%. Like I said, I didn't go through a correction/distraction phase until recently, so he basically came whenever he wanted to. Now he comes 100% of the time when he's not distracted.

I kind of want him to come without a line, though. He's not e-collar smart, but he sure knows when he has his leash on. In addition, we go to places where having a leash is not always practical (ie beach, where the leash always gets stuck in rocks, or hunting where he's too far away to even use the line).

Yes, I'm giving him the opportunity to ignore me, but if he chooses to do so he will get a correction with the e-collar. I am putting him in situations where it is easier for him to ignore me, though. But I just think that's part of the distraction phase.

I will keep you updated on my progress with the e-collar. Thanks for your comments, they are always appreciated.

 Quote:

I am in drive, I know Dad is telling me something BUT I just cannot stop......YEEEIIIIKKKEESSS...geesh, Dad means business.... I better listen up

Nice way to put it, Carol. This is my first hound, and it sure is challenging to get to him when he's doing his thing (at least in a way that won't mess him up or our relationship). At the same time, I have a blast watching him do his thing and jumping 4 feet in the air trying to catch an animal that just climbed a tree, then trying to climb it himself, lol.

I'm glad I didn't overdue it. Here's hoping I won't have to use so much electricity the next time something like this happens. Regards.

 Quote: Richard Pryor

When we were ~50 yards from the hunting area, he bolted. I gave him the stay command and he ignored it. I said ‘no, stay’ waited one second and gave him a ~50 correction with the e-collar (I used the continuous button, but only pressed it for 1.5-2 seconds). He didn’t even feel it. I said ‘no, stay’ again while I increased the intensity of the collar to ~70.

At this point he was about 30 yards from me, but I was running towards him. He didn’t feel the correction either. I got kind of worried so I said ‘no, stay’ again while I turned the intensity of the collar all the way to the max (100). Well he yelped and stopped for a second, then kept on going. I said ‘no, stay’ yet again and nicked him. This time he yelped and stopped.

It sounds to me like he realized that stim is following him no matter what so he better mind. The same thing happened to me with my chow and 1700 NCP. We were walking up a hill and he bolted. I recalled him and nicked when he ignored me. He started running faster (full sprint) and disappeared over the hill. I gave him another recall and a continuous stim at 127 and he yelped but I heard him stop and start trotting toward me. We met at the top of the hill and I gave him lots of praise and treats. That was my first time off leash with the e-collar. It has never happened again. Make sure you know the collar is making good contact before you let him out into the world or he may never feel it. Did that one to. Luckily he's used to recalling with the pager so although the nick did nothing, the pager reminded him he better mind.