I was in petsmart last night (for socialization) and there was a dog class there...a bunch of owners walking around with their dogs and clickers doing...well I won't go into what they were doing. It was a class at petsmart. I think that says it all.

In any event, I happened past a man with a dog who the trainer was talking to, and the trainer was suggesting that every time the dog barked at the man, the man spray some bitter apple into the dogs mouth as it was barking.

I know my mom made me wash my mouth out with soap a few times, and it worked pretty well for me. Has anyone ever heard of this before? I don't think I'd ever have a cause to use this method, particularly, and I don't know if my dog would associate it properly.

Other than make the dog cower and be quiet when the owner is holding a bottle of bitter apple, I don't know what this accomplishes. Gotta love petsmart training.

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Other than make the dog cower and be quiet when the owner is holding a bottle of bitter apple, I don't know what this accomplishes

I agree, I have seen people who carry around small sprayer of bitter apple all the time to keep their dog in line. didn't seem right.

I have used it, but not like that. My dog went through a crazy chewing biting stage. We couldn't watch TV or do anything without him chewing/biting our shoes (on our feet), legs, the furniture, leash, anything small enough to get his mouth around. He was too young for harsh corrections, so we just sprayed our feet and other likely targets with the spray and gave him something appropriate to chew. Worked like a charm.

Oh yeah, Shody. It's a fantastic product. In Your Puppy 8 weeks to 8 months Ed talks about it, and has some interesting ideas. Worth watching, and I think he's dead on with what he suggests. It has certainly saved our shoes with Macy and her giant teeth.

Whenever I see someone look at a choke collar I ALWAYS speak up against it. I'm pretty forward about things and I very diplomatically let them know that a Prong is a better option, despite appearences. On several occasions I've even put both on my arm and demonstrated, for them. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I feel like I should make sure they're informed.

How much do you guys push issues like this? Issues that can be easily remedied, and could be unneccesarily detrimental to the dog? I wanted to talk to the dog owners about how stupid (or, ineffective) the bitter apple idea seemed, but I know the trainer would have poo-poo'ed me, even though I probably know more about dogs and training than she does. Do you even bother trying to help other owners? Or do you consign their dogs to the "mercies" of their ignorant masters? What is our responsibility?

I will sometimes bring things up, (like choke vs. prong, etc.) but don't push it. If they seem receptive i will elaborate or tell them to check out the Leerburg site. If they seem in any way snarky, I drop and and change the subject. We can only do so much.

Probably a good call on not speaking in front of the trainer. Although in their defense, I have gotten to know one of the trainers at our local petsmart, and she is actually pretty good, and frustrated with the restrictions put on her by petsmart. She admitted she doesn't agree with all their training methods, but it is a job, and she love dogs and training. She likes prongs, and I have turned her on to Leerburg. They aren't all bad.

I would have said something. Bitter apple has alcohol in it, 20% to be exact. That's a high percentage. Spraying it into the dog's mouth would likely get the spray in the dog's eyes as well. Alcohol in eyes - not good.

Ohh. I did not even think about that, Sandy. You're right. Well maybe I can go back there next Tuesday night and find the owner, just give him a heads up, if nothing else, at least on the safety aspect.

 Quote: David Eagle

Ohh. I did not even think about that, Sandy. You're right. Well maybe I can go back there next Tuesday night and find the owner, just give him a heads up, if nothing else, at least on the safety aspect.

I would.

I might even say that following the manufacturer's package directions, as strange as that might sound, would be the best thing to do when you're considering actually force-feeding the animal, which is what that amounts to.

I've seen that suggestion on an aol site, too. I disagree with it.

JMO.

I was very briefly employed at PetsMart as a "Pet Trainer" - reason for leaving was after learning their limitations and methods and how fanatical one of the other trainers was.

That Bitter Apple idea is not something taught by PetsMart(at least it wasn't as of September this year) , that sounds like an adapted idea by that particular trainer and I would not only bring it up to the owner but the store management as well as it IS a safety issue for the animal. Voice it as a concern for the wellbeing of the animal, you could go so far as to push "animal rights" a bit with that trainer suggestion unsafe practices.

I will say that some of those trainers might know what they are doing, but most of them do not - and that is how PetsMart likes it. Their training methods are directly affected by their products, and the brands they carry that offer deals for training use and promotion of their products.

The trainer at my local PetsMart thought I was barbaric for using a prong collar on a dog aggressive/human aggressive pitbull/lab mix (not in store, training talk) and said, and this is not exact wording but the best I can recall "Any dog that bites someone just needs to be loved and redirect their attention with food..."

This woman "has 14 years of experience" and calls any method other than PetsMart's "Barbaric."

Most of them mean well, but I don't think this particular woman has ever handled an actual dominant aggressive dog in her life. Yet her word is law and a lot of people around here trust her with their dog's lives.


Edit: I used a "very" where I didn't mean to, haha. Overactive typing, malfunctioning brain