Carol Boche wrote 12/04/2007 02:07 PM Hypothetical PPD Question #166618 - 12/04/2007 02:07 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Okay, This question was posed to me and I am looking for some input: Say you have a German working/showline dog....I know how some look at show dogs, but this one also has strong working lines in the background. Said dog is coming along nicely in PPD work. Great drives, nice deep bite, calm on the sleeve/suit...... One day, at say between.....12-15 months the dog starts "spooking" at things that normally NEVER bothered them. What do you guys say? A) The dog has nerve issues. B) The dog is growing up, and adolescent dogs may go through a "fear" period. (I use "fear" for lack of a better word) If you choose either A or B, please provide an explanation as to why. AND if you have any other input please add that as well. If you need me to elaborate on certain points, I can. Thanks Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 12/04/2007 02:14 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Carol Boche ] #166620 - 12/04/2007 02:14 PM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	I'd want to see the dog to evaluate him. Sometimes what one person considers "doing well", will be average to someone with more experience that reads the dog better. While its normal for puppies to spook, 15 months is kinda old to still be suddenly spooking at things. I would wait and see if he gets over it, but if I see him hesitate in bitework too then I wouldn't depend on the dog to bite anyone "for real".
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Carol Boche wrote 12/04/2007 02:19 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #166621 - 12/04/2007 02:19 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	So, would you back off of training and go back to basics to make sure that there was nothing missed or overlooked? My thoughts are, there would be no sense trying to move forward, but would going back a few steps possibly help? Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 12/04/2007 02:23 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Carol Boche ] #166624 - 12/04/2007 02:23 PM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	Well that depends. Is the dog spooking in bitework? Or just in normal situations? What does he spook at?
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Carol Boche wrote 12/04/2007 02:27 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #166627 - 12/04/2007 02:27 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Does not spook during bite work. Little things like someone moving their leg next to the dog when they were sleeping...the wind whipping a flag really hard when at, say...a gas station taking a pee break on the way home from training...also, the had been to the training 3 times and the dog had no issues when these other issues happened. Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 12/04/2007 02:30 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Carol Boche ] #166630 - 12/04/2007 02:30 PM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	If the dog is doing good in bitework, assuming all people involved can read the dog properly, I dont see a reason to move backwards. If anything, I might try to incorporate some of these things the dog spooks with into the bitework while he is in drive. But, as I said, if it persists then I would question the dogs nerves and ability to act when needed. Edit: Oh and continue socializing alot. The dog needs to get over that stuff, which won't happen without going out and realizing that someones leg moving doesn't result in death
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Jenni Williams wrote 12/04/2007 02:34 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #166635 - 12/04/2007 02:34 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Hmm, Carol. I wonder if it's possible that the dog is simply becoming more alert due to the training? Is he spooking and freaking, or just noticing and reacting? How long does it take him to recover? Has training been getting more serious lately? Defense?
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RobbinMann wrote 12/04/2007 03:03 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: Carol Boche ] #166658 - 12/04/2007 03:03 PM
RobbinMann Webboard User Reg: 12-19-2006 Posts: 842 Loc: Arizona Offline	Let's say the dog does great bite work! Never flinches with use of the whip, never flinches when trainer hits the leash on the harness, let's say the trainer has even commented the dog almost seems to want more of a challenge... but then, startles when something unfamiliar jumps out at him..recovers very quickly, doesn't run just kind of does that, whoa! what the!?? then goes to investigate. hypothetically... Jay Belcher and Levi Levi/Bella/Drogo
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Carol Boche wrote 12/04/2007 03:12 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: RobbinMann ] #166666 - 12/04/2007 03:12 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	Quote: RobbinMann Let's say the dog does great bite work! Never flinches with use of the whip, never flinches when trainer hits the leash on the harness, let's say the trainer has even commented the dog almost seems to want more of a challenge... but then, startles when something unfamiliar jumps out at him..recovers very quickly, doesn't run just kind of does that, whoa! what the!?? then goes to investigate. hypothetically... Yep....all of the above. Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Jenni Williams wrote 12/04/2007 03:14 PM Re: Hypothetical PPD Question [Re: RobbinMann ] #166669 - 12/04/2007 03:14 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Robbin, I may be publicly crucified for this, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. For sport, this dog may be considered weak-nerved. For PPD, I don't mind it so much b/c at least the dog is alert enough to perceive a potential threat. Recovery time is key. A dog that is running screaming and peeing is a problem. A dog who startles occasionally and instantly calms when the trigger is identified/evaluated by the dog, is not in my book, a big deal...in fact I kind of prefer a dog who is aware of his surroundings to that degree, and like the sharpness for PP, as long as the dog is stable. I have probably confused you, and pissed off others...
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