I have never used a remote collar before and after my first short training session with my dog was wondering if her reactions were normal. Since she already knows sit and down, just doesn't always listen 100% I thought I would work on them and use the stim as a correction in addition to regular corrections so that she would start to understand that the stim was correction. Well, she just seemed confused and the more I worked on it the more confused she got ( training only lasted about 5-10 minutes). She didn't want to sit or down once she felt the stim and only wanted to search for what was getting her. The more I worked with her the less she would do the sits/downs even with regular corrections and no stim. I could only get her to sit after a long prong collar correction and she would then break it immediately. Once we stopped training she continued to search and didn't want to come near me for awhile. I understand that they don't know at first what to make of the remote collar correction, but how long does it take till they start to understand. How many training session on average till you can actually work on the issue and use it as a correction and the dog respond accordingly. I have watched the Dvd on remote collar training and the dogs on there seem to pick it up quickly. If my dog doesn't does that mean I am doing something wrong. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Carolyn, it's crucially important that you know how to use the e-collar before you actually use it on your dog. I suggest you watch the e-collar DVD again. I always watch Ed's DVDs more than once and pick up something new each time. There's so much info, once just isn't enough. Especially on something as important as how to use the e-collar.

For now, I'd put away the e-collar for a while, and start over later. Did you condition her to the collar as the DVD said? Did you figure out the stim level to use on her? I also wouldn't have the first training session last even 5 minutes. IMO that's too long for a first session and would more than likely bring about the reaction your dog ended up having.

Not sure what you mean about a "long prong collar correction"? And are you using the prong and the e-collar in the same session?

I have watched the video already twice, but will watch it again tonight and see what else I might have missed. We did do the collar conditioning period and also a session to find the correct stim level to begin training. I guess I don't understand how long and what to do in the first few initial training sessions. I know on the dvd that he says don't do it as long as shown on the dvd and make them short session, but just how short. Should it be that she only gets like a couple of stim corrections in one session even if she isn't listening? It just seems like in the dvd the dogs respond quickly to the stim correction and you don't see what you do if the dog actually goes the opposite way and listens even worse because they find the stim too distracting.

I was using both types of corrections so that she would associate the stim with the type of correction she already knew. By long prong collar correction I meant that I had to just continue pressure on the prong collar for a few seconds till she finally would sit like asked, but was still so distracted that she wouldn't hold the sit.

I don't think Ed used two physical corrections in the DVD (like prong and stim). That seems like an overreaction to me.

Starbuck wore the E-Collar on out hikes for about 10 days before I used the remote. I found the reaction I wanted at level 40 on the Dogtra 1700. The first time I used the remote was back in the yard under a controlled condition. We just arrived home and she was very muddy. I turned on the hose to wash off her feet.

“Starbuck Come” – No movement
“No”
Stim at 40 – no visible reaction

“Starbuck Come” – No movement
“No”
Stim at 50 – no visible reaction

“Starbuck Come” – No movement
“No”
Stim at 70 – she hopped up from a laying position

“Starbuck Come” – She came right over to me with the hose running.
“Yes! Good Girl” Pat on the side and I washed off her feet. She completely forgot about the stim.

Two days later we are back with the same scenario. She came the first time I called her

Keith thanks for that run down. It sounds like Starbuck responded just like she should, but what if she had not come to you or wouldn't settle down once she reached you? That is what somewhat what I am dealing with. I will attempt to explain how our training session went.

Kayla sit (she does) good girl
Down (she does) good girl
Sit (she doesn't) No (still doesn't) Stim (no response) Sit - No (no response) Stim (she breaks the down and start sniffing around)
Kayla sit (she doesn't) No followed by prong correction (she is almost 100% with one prong collar corrections)- still no responce- harder prong correction- she sits but breaks it immediately

We did that or a similar senerio over the next few minutes. I did switch to asking for a come at some point (I know I should have only worked on one thing, I was just frusrated and hope that it might go better and make some headway)

Kayla Come (just looks at me from across the room) No followed by stim - no responce - again no and stim - I then reached for her leash and pulled her in - gave lots of praise (good girl and petting) she just wants to get away from me and sniff the room over

I stop using the stim at this point and tried to engage her in any type of play she just wanted to sniff the room and didn't seem comfortable being next to me. Stood in the entry way for 10-15 minutes and then starting coming back into the room like usual again.

It would seem that she doesn't associate the stim as a correction and is trying to figure out what it is and that distration actually makes her obedience worse. How do I get her to understand that it is like a prong correction (I can just do it now from farther away and without a leash).

Hello,
Just my 2 cents worth but what it sounds like to me is you have not found the right level of stim. If you go back to the video Ed shows how to find the right working level, and it looks like you are right below the mark where the dog is "searching like it just stepped on a land mine".(Ed quote) I am in the beginner stages of this e-collar deal but I tried to do my homework.
I have a Cane Corso and his working level is in the 70's and 80's range depending on how high in drive he is. Truthfully I have nicked him with almost 100 and he still acts like its nothing but thats not a regular thing just a couple of times. Oh, by the way I have the Dogtra 1700. I would probably take Sandy's advice on getting away from the e-collar for a few days but maybe just wearing the collar but not using it. I struggled with mine a little while too like having to buy longer contact points evan though my dog has short hair it is thick, and I evan bought some gel for better contact that seems to help. Its getting easier everyday but just have to have patience. Hopefully I didn't ramble on too much hope this helps.

Carolyn,
What e-collar are you using? Are you sure that you have good contact with the prongs on the e-collar? A thick coated dog, you may have to either A) buy longer prongs B) or shave a spot on the neck, which I would not recommend since it doesn't look all that great AND the collar needs to be moved every couple hours to avoid irritation.

Carolyn,

Ed makes it look easy in the DVD, but that's because he knows what he's doing. It is harder than it looks. When I first started using the e-collar with my dog, it took him a couple of short sessions to understand that the stim was a correction. In fact, the first time out, he tried to run away. This was with a stim that he just seemed to notice. He was confused. But I kept at it for a couple of days and he finally figured out that the stim was a correction.

Does your dog understand that "no" means a correction is coming if she doesn't obey?

Dear Rich: I think that is why Ed keeps his dogs on a long line. THey do get confused in the beginning and can bolt. So, maybe that would help. Do you have the ecollar DVD yet? That really helps. And remember when your dog doesn't obey, say no first, then also reward when your dog does obey with treats etc. and of course you will probably have to reassure your dog along the way. It must seem very weird and probably scary to be a dog and never have had experienced this type of thing before.
I am beginning the same training and plan to practice awhile before I active the collar to get the corrections timed just right, then I'll active it. I know it will be very hard at first and I don't want to make things even more confusing for my dog.
Let us know how the training goes. What areas are you training with the ecollar right now? (heeling, the recall, etc)
Good luck,
God bless you

Thank you all for the replies. I think that maybe the issue is that we are on the low end of her working stim level and I need to up it a bit. I put the collar on her last night and wasn't planning on using it, but did when she went into the cat's room and started bugging him (she just wants to sniff him , but he isn't okay with this and then when he starts to hiss and bat at her, no claws, she barks and it becomes a annoying situation for the rest of the household) anyway she went into his room and I did nick her whenever she went up to him and she did seem to leave him alone but kept putting her head in his litter box (noticed later he had uncovered and therefore very smelly poop in there). The few nicks didn't work, so I used the pager and out the room she went and stood waiting for me at the top of the stairs. I guess that might be a clue that the stim level is too low when she responded better with the pager feature.

She does know what no means and I noticed later in the evening (the collar was still on her but I wasn't using it) that she was responding to no very well while playing with her. She is good at retrieving a toy and bringing it back to you, but just won't listen to the drop it command and always want you to tug and try and get it away from her. Last night after I told her to drop it and she didn't I would say no and she would then drop it, so hopefully that is some progress.