Is this common among 90 plus lbs dogs? I know the answer, but please say NO.

I met a couple at the Vet that GSD was visiting because of sore joints, they figured that after years of Protection training on slippery and unevn surfaces. Jumping, crawling and climbing all these activities might have caused this problem.

Guess what I was at the Vet researching the nearly the same problem. In my cause it is soreness in the rear elbow joints. My dog he still trouts and runs but he can't jump as high and doesn't really like to stand up on his rear legs unless its some food involved anymore. Is this too common a problem to ignore. Is it the weigh or the activites? Any remedies, pre Vet conclusions.

Joint issues are central among problems with all purebred dogs. In the working circles it is noticed more and treated more. Of course there is also the sports type injuries that occur to any creature, man or dog that is physically active. To just assign it to protection work or slick floors or any other special endeavors ove simplifies the issue.
Some things can be done. Funny, many of them I do for me as well such as, glucoseamine, chondroitin sulfate, MSM, and vitamin C. All help in joint health. I can say that it helps me stay on my feet following a few sports injuries to me knees as a young man. It has visible results in many of the PSD's I start on the meds. Many of my peers have taken to using the same things as well and most claim improvments.
Our vet has us starting all the new PSD of 1 1/2 -3 years of age on glucoseamine and chondroitin sulfate as soon as they begin traininng. i recommend the same for all my students dogs.
At some point in their careers most PSD's end up on rymadil (sp) and I also have the handlers add fish oil to the mix.

Don,
I have a 9 1/2 yr old GSD ,weighs between 78 -83 lbs normally. I to thought of possible joint problems when my dog started not doing some of the same. My local vet didn't have the proper x-ray equipment to take photo's the way she wanted, so she sent me to a vet whom specializes in the hip and spinal area. Turns out my dog has Degenerative Myelopathy - a disease of the spinal cord - common with GSDs - no cure.

My point I'm getting at - at first we were treating my GSD for old age & arthritis, but if anything the dog was acting worse - not even stabilizing. SO I pushed the vet for some better answers.

I honestly hope this isn't the case for you and your dog, but I have been giving my older GSD, the supplemental Kevin has spoken about and will start my younger GSD when he is a little older.

Good Luck
Mark Addison

I have had big dogs for the last 20 years or so. I don't believe that early joint problems are inevitable. If the dogs have sound genetics to start with, and you use care in their early life, you may not see joint problems until old age. My dogs have lived to be 13-15 years old and had minimal joint problems until they were in to old age (8+).

Part of it is taking good care of their health to start with. Some of it is not doing excessive amounts of things that are hard on the joints until the dog has matured. Often we push dogs in to doing things that they are not physicaly ready for. Starting jumping too early for example. I think we tend to be impatient and create many of the problems we see in our dogs.

The weight was not the problem for my last Police GSD that was 70 lbs (3 yrs old). He has elbow dysplasia, with a resting period and supplements that Kevin talked about seemed to help. However he was retired early because I could not count on him the way I need. He is a pet and the new handler says he is enjoying a new life as a pet.

Kevin Thanks I'll start a similar program right away. You mentioned that its more common in the Pure breed, then say a mixed breed? I think you are right my Mix nearly the same things and same weight shows not ill effect.

Richard I'm guilty as charged he was so smart, energetic and could be trained to do whatever so easily. I should have waited sleeping and working on concret floors doesn't help either. Jumping out of windows or from the top of play sets. Fun for me and him but probably damaging. I'm Guilty.

Mark - What a scary thought Degenerative Myelopathy, I don't think so because he better some days then others, its not progressive worse. And he still thinks he can do most of the things he use to. He just not as fast, high, accurate or precise. I have to stop him from doing those things that he use to. But its not progressive, it ebs and flows.

Boro - You might have a point, it might have happen any way regradles of his weight, he's always carried it well.

To the Board - I feel a little mis-informed by not listening to you guys that a thinner dog is a healthier dog. Several GSD forums stated that the proper weight for the dog is 70-110lbs. I thought I was within spec, maybe this is not a factor. He has always moved and carried the weight well, never missing a jump and almost always caught the decoy.

I'm feeding him a little less it may be too late, but the less strain on his joints and medication might help, the better I'd say.

With this joint illness should training be avoided or with medication and treatment can the dog still be worked.

Would this be determined by the dogs williness to work? Should he be workes for as long as he wants to WORK? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What about message does this help? It seems to work for humans. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You haven't said what the vet's diagnosis was... soreness in the "rear elbows" is not a diagnosis. The treatment and decisions on activity level must be driven by a correct diagnosis of the problem, not guessing.

I am too scared to say but that was the same way my last police dog was and he has the elbow dysplasia. X-rays proved the dysplasia, the dog is always welling to work. However the same problems were seen, sore after training. I felt bad because he always wanted to work but was unaware. I just thought it was sore from working hard. Lucky for me my 2 trains from Germany saw him limping slightly and off to the vet. The dysplasia was so bad we retired him. Protection work the dog was in drive so much that he over came the pain. Good luck.

Don,
Once we found the problem with DM, we have treated it differently. My old PSD gets a cocktail of vitamins every day, have changed the dog food to an all vegeterian meal - gets medication every other day and we take the PSD swimming every other day. Good muscle for the back - plus cools off during this humid weather. We have good days and a few bad - I take to work still every day - dog does not want to stay home.
We have changed training - no more patrol work - just narcotics and tracking. The time will eventually come - but until then. I have changed all the diet and physical routine on the advise of the specialist, hoping my ole dog will have some quality of life left - plus hopefully have another rookie ready by then.

I talked to a trainer in Texas today, he has a 2 yr PSD that has been diagnosed with DM.

Good Luck
Mark