Recently i became interested in what i was hearing about the American Tundra Shepherd, and would like to hear what you all know about this breed, its temperment and so on.

Googled American Tundra Shepherd

Seems like a glorified way to pass off hybrids to me, or some sort of "wannabe" hybrid.

most breeds do start off as crosses, as did the GSD, so i have no problem with that per se, but are there folks here with personal experience with these dogs, that can tell me about them and their working qualifications?

I saw one once at a dog function a few years ago.

The owner was very proud of her purchase, and the poor beast was *very* skittish.

It was a large, not very attractive dog - looked like your average GSD/collie mix available at any shelter for a $50 adoption fee.
The woman got a "deal" on him and was thrilled that she got him for "only" $1500 because he of his hip dysplasia......

And yes, she planned on breeding him.

I'm sorry Gail, you asked for opinions on the breed.

This: description

causes me a bit of confusion....they say this "breed", which is not recognized by any national organization even though it has been around since 1968, can be used for SAR and then in the same paragraph they explain they can be "very standoffish with strangers, so much so that their owners should be present every time someone unknown approaches".

I have looked at all the links and most pictures are of pups, and there are NO working pictures that I saw.

Therefore, I would tend to think that these dogs are a status breed and not a well coveted working breed.

I know you kind of cast me off with your last post, but I do not think this breed would fit into the working world. Although, I could be wrong.

Carol you got it right.
Gail,I have to roll my eyes at these "breeders" pathetic in my opinion to breed anything with a WOLF, ridiculous really.
I find interesting that anyone would even be interested in a mix that has WOLF in it as a first generation, for one the ones who want to buy these mixes don't bother to read the history of the at least one side of the breeding ....THE WOLF! if you read the history of WOLVES, you would know that they are very shy , need lots of room to roam and if you do not give them room they'll make it, they are highly prey driven and the list goes on and on!
What is YOUR interest in these Tundra/salloos ect...
Please run the other way and look into good breeders of Shepherds

I do not believe Carol meant that they are hybrids as in mixed breeds. These are wolf hybrids, a newer breed being created to compete with the Saarloos Wolfhound and the Czech Wolfdog and supposedly the intent was to create a dog similar to those breeds but more "stable" and "friendly." To make a new breed of dog like a GSD that was larger and "healthier" - to reduce inheritable diseases.

I personally do not agree with making hybrids a "breed" and marketing wolfdogs as family pets and working dogs. I will say that any wolf in these dogs is very very low content, they at this point in the breeding programs are probably less than 1% wolf. Still, I have never liked the use of wolves as some sort of attempt to create new bloodlines and a "fresh start" in a "new breed" of dog. The amount of wolf in the marketed breed after X amount of generations is not enough to really matter. Every breed is inbred/linebred and has a limited gene pool, it is a simple fact. The use of wolves will make the first few generations "healthier" depending on the dogs it was crossed with, but once you get to the point the ATS is at now, generation 30 or 40 or more, the % of dog is too high to make the wolf part matter for health reasons.

All breeds start out healthy, and end up with health problems because you cannot get away from limited gene pools in a pure breed, and people will be irresponsible and breed unhealthy animals. It is better to cross two breeds or more together and infuse fresh blood of other purebred dogs every X amount of generations in a new breed than to use wolves and have to wait until the 5th or 6th generation to be able to allow the average person to have one it could actually handle.

With that said I have no personal experience handling or working with these dogs but I have seen one and heard about a few others. The general consensus is you are pretty much just getting a shy, supersized shortlived GSD. Working ability.. ah, service dogs potentially, competition OB potentially. Weight pull maybe. Not SchH or protection dogs and not agility dogs. I've never really heard anything or been able to find anything on a search about serious working ability for protection or SchH or ringsport.

This is all just MHO of course

Edit to say.. sorry! I was so slow 3 other posts were made. Also to say that these statements about wolves and wolfdogs are from personal experience with wolves and wolfdogs. They are not pets and definitely not working dogs.

eek, i'm sorry that you guys misunderstood my last post!:-( i don't own an ATS, or know anyone who does. my present service dog is a GSD of Danish/DDR breeding, and she is hands down the most intelligent dog i have ever had the pleasure of working. my interest in the ATS was piqued by a photo of one working as an SD, and as the owner of a group of disabled folks who train their own SDs, its important to me to keep up with things in the SD world, which includes breeds that are being used, because, sure as anything, i'll wind up with someone who will come to us either asking about using an ATS, or who has one. so i want to learn about them.

from what i have read, the GSD has as part of its founding stock, dogs with high tundra wolf content, including horand, so its not unheard of. but from what i understand, the wolf influence is rather quickly diluted in breeding, unless reintroduced in some way. so i'm trying to understand the gentics of this whole deal....

again, i wasn't trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to learn from folks here...

I figure if the Czech govt tried it and abandoned it and the US Govt tried it and abandoned it because they did not get the working dogs they desired, that speaks volumes.

The pictures on the links were a lot of overweight, sway backed, poor looking specimes. Also they seem a bit big (males 27-31 at withers) to be an agile working dog.

I agree with Carol for the SAR statement. No WAY would I want a dog that had to be "approached with the proper body language" - into the woods to find a missing person.

I guess the question is what is it you have you been hearing about them? I have not met any.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

I will say that any wolf in The use of wolves will make the first few generations "healthier" depending on the dogs it was crossed with, but once you get to the point the ATS is at now, generation 30 or 40 or more, the % of dog is too high to make the wolf part matter for health reasons.

Well yes but many market the fact that they have Wolf in their dogs, and then every Dick and Harry that look for the baddest the biggest etc.. will jump on it. The problem I have with this is that most of these "breeders" of such mixes/hybrid, have NO FLIPPIN clue what they are breeding and the percentage that it will take to make a difference in the "gene pool" or better any breed, as I read most of their website i can tell that they have no clue on what they are doing , other then collect a few bucks from the litters they produce.
Gail, I realize that it's just out of curiousity you are asking, i find it interesting as well that after so many years of breeding these types of dog , no real good as come of it and yet they are still doing it.