Hi everyone. I have my new dobie now. He just turned 9wks today. Crate training is going well. I actually picked up him 3 days before his 8wk birthday. I gradually introduced the crate to him with a mixture of treats, toys and my presence. He does very well; very well behaved while in the crate. We have had a couple pee accidents in the crate, but they have been few and far between. I cannot get the common denominator on the cause.

My question is this: How do puppies know they are not suppose to use the bathroom in the house? Everywhere I've been reading is about positive reinforcement, routine and repitition. It must work; I'm just curious. I relate my question to how do children know not to touch a hot stove? One of two ways, touch a hot stove and learn that it hurts or through parental guidance telling them to stay away, don't touch, etc. My point is, if the dog doesn't have any accidents in the house just from constant supervision or we don't get to witness an accident to make the correction, when does he make the connection that it is wrong to do it in the house?

Hope this makes sense.

Craig

dogs are creatures of habit by nature.
My 13 week old pees in the same spot outside everytime, I didnt teach him that, he just does it, and then he has a routine of things he sniffs in a particular order before turning in a few circles and pottying, same thing almost everytime i dont think its OCDish in this case but rather routine and habits they build for themselves

So wherever the habit is established it will stick, if they never establish peeing in the house, they wont think to do it.

Also, you are showing them where the outside of the "den" is when you take them out and reward the outdoor potty. JMO.

Many years and dogs later, I can say that it does indeed work. :-)

 Quote: jennifer lee

So wherever the habit is established it will stick, if they never establish peeing in the house, they wont think to do it.

This is why tethering the pup to the human for a while works so well ... because the habit of indoor potty doesn't gain a toehold. The outdoor potty does, because every time the pup squats or lifts a leg, s/he is brought outdoors and praised like heck for outdoor potty.

We have to remember that "correcting" for indoor potty after the fact means nothing to the dog except confusion. Being corrected while doing nothing doesn't connect the action with the correction.

 Quote: Craig Campbell

when does he make the connection that it is wrong to do it in the house?

Hope this makes sense.

Craig

When he learns how excellently it goes for him to potty outside.... and also when he is hustled outside if he squats or lifts a leg.

Maybe changing your way of thinking about it will help...because I think it's a combination of things.

Yes, you're teaching the dog not to potty in the den, and what the DEN is. But I really believe that the other big part of it is that, through positive reinforcement, you're teaching the dog where it is GOOD to go to the bathroom.

To use your stove analogy, if you gave your kid a cookie every time they walked at least a foot and a half away from the stove as they passed near it, they would learn not to touch the stove, not by burning themselves, but by experiencing a benefit for distancing themselves from it.

Does that make sense?

Craig,

First, don't correct the puppy when it pees or poops in the house. It's still a baby, and really doesn't understand the correction if you don't time it perfectly.

How they make the connection that it isn't OK to pee in the house, I don't know. How did you make it for yourself?

When our dog was a puppy, we took him outside every time we let him out of the crate, before and after meals, and my son got up every four hours over night to take him out. We only had a couple of accidents, and then, one day, he started letting us know when he needed to go out. At first his signs were subtle, but we picked up on them. Now they are more overt, like barking at us if we ignore him too long.

We put in a 25 x 25 sq foot gravel area in one corner of the yard, against our fence on two sides and railroad ties on the other two sides. When we took him out, always on a leash, we'd take him over there to do his thing. Then, one day, we were throwing the ball, and he went out and got it, then ran over to the gravel and pee'd. He'd never done that before by himself. Now all we have to do is let him out and he heads over there to go, or if he is out by himself or playing he goes over there whenever he needs to.

So ... you can train him to go outside. You can train him where to go outside. You need to be patient. Hans was probably 6 months old before he went over to the gravel area by himself, without us taking him there. Praise him big time when he does it right. Treat him and throw him a party.

And if you do have accidents, use something like Natures Miracle to clean them up. It has enzymes that break down whatever scent molecules are in feces and urine. You'll notice your dog sniffing around before he goes. My wife calls that "getting inspiration", but if they smell pee or poop someplace, they think that it is OK to go there. So you want to clean up the accidents with something that destroys the scents that are left behind.

Hi Craig. As a person who 15 years ago thought crates were nothing more than prisons for dogs, and hence had my first pup peeing everywhere, here's my 2 cents.

With an 8 week old pup:

Step 1: Crate
Step 2: Take pup outside to pee at least once every two hours, the MINUTE you take pup out of crate.
Step 3: Once pup pees and/or poops HUGE PRAISE!!!!!
Step 4: Play with pup, indoors or outdoors, have a ball! (literally + figuratively)

Repeat.

IMO, the hardest part is keeping this up every couple of hours through those first few weeks - despite sleep deprivation and work schedule issues. But if you find a way to do it, your potty training time will surely be lessened. The more you get that pup outdoors when it might need to pee/poo, and the less accidents you have in the house, the faster this whole thing will be in your rear view mirror.

Best wishes...

 Quote: Beth Fuqua

... the hardest part is keeping this up every couple of hours through those first few weeks - despite sleep deprivation and work schedule issues. But if you find a way to do it, your potty training time will surely be lessened. The more you get that pup outdoors when it might need to pee/poo, and the less accidents you have in the house, the faster this whole thing will be in your rear view mirror.

Best wishes...

But I can tell you, as Beth has, that it's time WELL SPENT.

I have adopted adults who were never house-trained, so I know how the habit (from being forced to go in their crate or kennel) gets ingrained. You are the factor that makes the habit one you want or one you don't want.

hello everyone, thanks for all of the replies. Believe me, I am doing everything on the list. No problems there. I haven't made any corrections, whatsoever. I was mainly questioning the psychology of the house breaking process and I think David Eagle's comment cleared it up a little bit.

I guess I think about things too much and over analyze them. I eventually learn that if I pee in this spot, I get a treat. However, if I'm in the house and have to pee, I might not get a treat, but that's OK this time, because I have to pee.

Weird thinking I guess.

@Rich,

I guess I learned because of constant parental guidance. But, I'm sure when I messed up, I was told I needed to go to the bathroom for those kinds of things. No, I didn't get a cookie everytime I peed in the toilet and I'm sure I got corrections for doing it wrong.

Cheers.