I'm currently looking for my first gsd and schutzhund pup. I've found some breeders and litters that I like, but all want puppy deposits on one sex or the other. It seems that to get a good pick of the litter, you have to reserve a pup before the litter is born. My heart wants a male, and my brain wants a female. But honestly, I would take whatever pup is most suited for what I'm looking for. I don't want to choose a sex of the pup now and miss out on the possibility of good pups of the other sex.

Is it reasonable or fair to ask a breeder to reserve a pup both sexes for you? (I can't imagine a breeder would do that, but I don't breed, so I really don't know)

If I have to choose one or the other, any recommendations? Have you noticed trends in workability, trainability, and livability in males and females? Is one sex generally recommended over the other for new schutzhund trainers?

I know this kind of topic can be discussed to death with no real answer except - it all depends. So here's my situation/experience:

I have a 7y/o spayed female border collie, Bradley. She has been great and showed no aggression to the 6 other BC's that came to live at the house for training. (They came throughout a 5 yr span, came one at a time, and stayed a span of a month to a year. The dogs were males and females, a pup and adults, fixed and unfixed.)

I don't know if that info really matters since future pup will have very little interaction with Brad. It would be nice though if when the pup becomes neutralized to dogs, the two could get along well when together.

I've only trained border collies in agility and herding; and have never had to deal with a dominant dog. I'm not worried about training a dominant dog, just never had the experience.

I was really lucky with my first dog, Brad. Got her from commercial breeder ( but not the puppy mill type breeder) when I was 12. Mistake #1. And despite making thousands more mistakes with her, still managed within a year and a half of showing in agility to title in the top level in 3 venues. We would have gone to the nationals if I hadn't been whisked away to college.

Is there such a thing as beginners luck with SchH? As in, new schutzhund trainer gets a good pup and makes it to nationals with it?

I know agility is a whole lot easier to train and do well in than SchH is. So please tell me if wanting a male so that, by chance, we can be competitive at the national level, is dreaming too big.

So, as I've asked before, if I have to choose before I know the pups in the litter... should I get a male or female?
Thanks,

Michele & NATCH Bradley ...(w/ lots more agility titles afterwards )

I don't think anyone has ever made it to nationals with their first ever working dog. You will make so many mistakes lol. This is also why the best breeders really don't give the best pups to new handlers looking for their first dog. On top of that, the best pups really aren't suitable dogs for beginner handlers anyway.

Generally speaking, the best male pup in a litter will be better than the best female pup in the litter. But thats not to say its always true, I have seen some really great working females, but I would always choose a male. I have a female Dutchie because I wanted a 2nd house dog, and the only way my oldest male will accept another dog in the house, is if its a female.

Most breeders will not reserve a pup without knowing the sex. Males are more sought after and it is a selling point to get the new puppy buyers as high up in the choice list as possible. Offering 2nd pick or 3rd pick to someone could be the difference between making the sale and losing the sale. If they give you choice of 2nd pick male AND 2nd pick female, then it gets complicated for the breeder, as they will have to tell people "well you get 3rd pick male, unless she doesnt take a male, in which case you get 2nd pick", same for 3rd and 4th picks, so the other buyers who may be more determined and know what they want, will walk away because they don't want to get a 3rd or 4th pick puppy.

As for the differences in males. This is all very generalized since I have seen females that are equally so as males, but:

Females are less dominant.
Females can be softer.
Females can have more "will to please".
Females don't mark their territory.
Females will bleed all over your house during their heat, and need to be kept confined, away from where any intact males (stray or otherwise) can get to them. My female wears doggy diapers for 3 weeks, twice a year, changed every time I let her outside (so she doesn't pee in the diaper). Its a pain in the butt, but its part of having an intact working female in the house.
Females should not be spayed until at LEAST their 3rd heat cycle. I personally do not believe in spaying or neutering any working dog unless there is a medical reason for it.
Females are smaller, and can be easier to handle for people that do not have the strength to handle a male.

Males are bigger.
Males are more likely to be dominant.
Males can be more stubborn/independant/less will to please.
Males can be harder (takes a stronger correction to get through to them).
Males have more natural aggression and the desire to dominate the helper in protection work.
Just about everyone with experience will choose a male over a female for sport, or any type of work.

Now as I said, these are some HUGE generalizations. I know a female Dutch Shepherd that is nastier and more difficult to handle than just about any male German Shepherd have ever come accross. I have seen cases where the females are the stronger and harder dogs in a litter than the males. I have seen many soft males just as I've seen many hard females.

Personally, I would go for a male if you want to do Schutzhund. Females can be quirky and hormonal when they go into heat, which affects how they work. Some start acting like soft lil sissies, others get really pissed off and work even better during their heat.

If you go to a reputable breeder, they will be able to pick a puppy that shows potential to be the type of dog that you are looking for and able to handle. The odds that you end up with a super dominant handler aggression nutjob of a dog is very slim, and if you do end up with a dog that is like that, give me a call, I might buy him from you

I'm not sure, but have heard that the female shepherds are more dominant than the males. They tend to be the pack leaders, just as in a wolf pack. My breeder (shepherd breeder/trainer)told me that if you're a female you should purchase a male shepherd. A female sphepherd will try to win leadership, they're more challenging for a female owner.

Has anybody else ever heard this?

Sounds like crap to me. However, female pups do show more dominance and aggression in the litter at 7/8 weeks, they "look better" -- however, once maturity catches up, the males will typically surpass the females at around 1 year old.

I always like opposite sex handler/dog teams. "My boys" are waaay easier on me than my females. I have a dominant male GSD who does not give me a hard time at all, but is a pita to guys. He is also quite protective of me (and I don't really care that it's b/c he thinks I belong to him ). Males tend to be more territorial/possessive and females tend to be more "pack"-oriented when it comes to protection, but these are generalizations.

I personally really like the dynamic of opposite sex teams, and it would probably be easier to bring a male GSD into the house w/Bradley than a female. I would definitely shoot for a male for your first.

Cari, could you PM me who your Breeder is? Just curious.

I do not know much about picking or ordering your pup first with the chance of it being a better pup for Schutzund or such,
If that is the case, then i have two certain losers in my kennels if that is what we have to go by
'Fred' was the last Pup in the Litter in other words a Reject by other people who picked there pups,
Goran' was again the last Pup in the Litter left, another reject so thought by others who had a earlier choice
But of the Litter of Pups Baby Goran is the Only one of the Litter to take after his father in looks and Shape all the others are like there Dam, Perhaps thats why he was left
Fred, I would not change him for $20,000
He will make the grade in Schutzund, if by the comments of the experts who have seen him and there have been a lot of knowledgeble Dog people watch him working is to go by,
He is a really hard headed stubborn Pup and now nearly 14 months Old is only just beginning to come around, but he never misses anything going on around him
These two Rejects are a good test case for picking out your own choice, It will be interesting in the near future to see which way the tide turns for these two unwanted Boys
and to make it more interesting both Pups are handled by two fellows, owning there first German Shepherd Dogs and at the age of 67 years old and 63 years old,
But i know which way the tide will turn and it will not be going out

Steve, are they rejects, or just last picks? If a litter is very uniform, then there is no real "reject".

But getting "priority pick" in a litter is a sales point. From a sales perspective, people are more likely to choose a litter where they can choose from all the pups, than be forced to take a pup that is left. Also, the leftover pup doesnt always mean he isnt the best, it means he did not appeal to the other people who picked a pup. Some people may be brand new to the sport and intimidated by a very driven dog, so they pick a calmer pup and the best one gets left over.

I dont think that the opposite sex handler/dog dynamics are always like that, I think it definitly depends on the dog and the handler. ive handled dogs of both sexes and never seen a trend in better responses with over the other.

 Quote: Mary Roach

I dont think that the opposite sex handler/dog dynamics are always like that, I think it definitly depends on the dog and the handler. ive handled dogs of both sexes and never seen a trend in better responses with over the other.

Mary, it depends on what you're doing with the dog, and the character of the dog. She wasn't asking about pets; she wants a Sch. prospect, and in general , a Sch. prospect is going to have certain drives or temperament tendencies. So, assuming that holds true, I suggested a male b/c out of dogs of both sexes w/EQUAL working ability, I think that it's easier to learn with a dog less likely to see you as an adversary, and even a dominant male will often not challenge a good female handler the way he might w/a man. Not a rule by any means, but just something that seems to happen fairly often from my own experience and anecdotally from friends. If you're talking about pets, then I would agree that it doesn't really matter as much.

I agree with you Mike,
My flppant remaks were just that, I think i have two very good Pups both very clearly driven pups who love what they do. I am very pleased with them and i would not swap them