Quote: Roni Hoff

Kevin;
I prefer the Dogtra brand:
1. reastat to adjust incrementaly the stimulation
2. the actual sensation of the stimulus is pleasant
3. I prefer using the nick button
4. reliability, of stimulus, I push the nick button on each collar, 50 times to verify
5. Dogtra stands behind its product
Numbers 1 and 2 are of extreme importance in my training, some this is why I prefer the Dogtra brand of the others.
Hope this helps.
Roni

This had me thinking after I read it...

Roni, could you elaborate on your comment about the Dogtra's sensation being pleasent?

Do any other ecollars feature a pleasent sensation, or can you compare the different sensations for me?

Thanks!

P.S. Hey, maybe my buddy could use it on this football injury...LOL! (He fell and sprained his wrist at a Superbowl party this year...going up the stairs! )

 Quote: Rick Miller

P.S. Hey, maybe my buddy could use it on this football injury...LOL! (He fell and sprained his wrist at a Superbowl party this year...going up the stairs! )

i know you're joking, but i wonder if you could use it as a stim to help break down scar tissue and promote healing....hmmmm....

am curious about this as well, as i'll be ordering this week. obviously i have to watch the video etc, and my impression is ed shows a far more positive way of training w/an e-collar, but i thought the stim acted as an adversive - is this not the case?

I would like to believe he is referring to the vibrate feature. You can stim the dog with only vibration before you send the juice if you like. I actually agree with him, the vibration feature feels kinda nice, I am sure my dog is not feelin that because she knows the vibrate is a warning........

Even on the lowest setting the juice stim I would not classify as pleasant...more like someone just flicked you really hard in the ear or something...LOL

And yes...I tried it, I did low but my husband being macho took a shot at a setting of 25...that was a funny thing to watch

 Quote: Valerie Tietz-Kelly

And yes...I tried it, I did low but my husband being macho took a shot at a setting of 25...that was a funny thing to watch

Dang, I wish I could have seen it. Can you get him to do it again and get a video?

I have had several Chiropractors use low level stim on my injuries after an adjustment. If you have a Chiropractor who works on your dog they could probably advise you about when to use low level stim (paired with lots of treats) for muscle injuries.

tee hee!

that makes sense about vibe vs. nick.

debbie, i was actually meaning on any of my injuries! i've had enough physio w/stim over the years, i'm sure i could figure it out

Valerie; I use the Dogtra brand of collar and the way that I use that collar I sure as heck don't want a dog feeling like I whopped him up side the head. I DO NOT use the collar as an adversive while I am teaching. That is just something that I choose not to do. I find most people are substituting the e collar for a pinch collar correction. Does it work. Yep. I like
the Dogtra units because I can fine tune the stim to not interrupt the dog's thought process, but i can deliver a rythemic
pulse, in conjunction with a primary reinforcer and body language
to teach. I can then use an e collar later in the proofing stage of dog training, once the dog completely understands the command.
This is why I have to be really particular on how the dog perceives the stimulation from the collar.

Rick, perhaps pleasant is a subjective word. The Innotek stimulation feels like putting your tongue on a battery, yuck.
The Dogtra is a pulsing (each dog's working level is different, but the dog's perception is what is important here)sensation.
The Tri Tronics is a great collar, just jumps way too quickly and is much stronger in all of the sensations. IMO
Roni

so in essence it can act as a reminder/reinforcement without being strongly unpleasant/adversive? that's quite nice it has that sort of range.

I just want to say that I am planning to go out and work with Roni for a few days to learn this technique. I have seen it done before and it works wonderfully.

Unfortunately I do not know how to get started, BUT, fortunately I get to go visit Roni again and learn some GREAT stuff.

I also use the Dogtra equipment as well as having some Tri Tronics as well as Innotek in my "tool box". I like the Tri Tronics however the remotes are big and bulky (at least the ones I have) and I find that the Innotek stuff does not even phase my dogs. Not sure why that is, but ever since getting some Dogtra stuff, I doubt I will ever go with anything else.

 Quote: roni hoff

Valerie; I use the Dogtra brand of collar and the way that I use that collar I sure as heck don't want a dog feeling like I whopped him up side the head. I DO NOT use the collar as an adversive while I am teaching. That is just something that I choose not to do. I find most people are substituting the e collar for a pinch collar correction. Does it work. Yep. I like
the Dogtra units because I can fine tune the stim to not interrupt the dog's thought process, but i can deliver a rythemic
pulse, in conjunction with a primary reinforcer and body language
to teach. I can then use an e collar later in the proofing stage of dog training, once the dog completely understands the command.
This is why I have to be really particular on how the dog perceives the stimulation from the collar.

Rick, perhaps pleasant is a subjective word. The Innotek stimulation feels like putting your tongue on a battery, yuck.
The Dogtra is a pulsing (each dog's working level is different, but the dog's perception is what is important here)sensation.
The Tri Tronics is a great collar, just jumps way too quickly and is much stronger in all of the sensations. IMO
Roni

Roni -

I understand your meaning now. I use the Dogtra on my pet, she is not a working dog. She is however a PB with DA issues. After running the gamet of training tools, the e-collar was chosen. I ONLY use juice stim for DA, all other corrections are now voice, and correction from a flat collar. Since DA was her worst and by far her most "driving" issue, other training tools were unsuccessful for me as she could take a very high level correction from a prong and recover instantly and return to drive. I even tried the dominant dog collar, slowly lifting her off her front paws, and when lowered again - right back into drive. My training for all other things were effective with those tools other than the DA. We speculate that this particular issue was due greatly to her nature. The one and only thing that she really seems to dislike so much she will avoid the unwanted DA behavior is the stim from juice. Nick is not effective but a 2 second continuous stim brings her right back to my side and focus on me. I very rarely use the stim anymore, the behavior when she sees another dog has become what appears to me to be habit, resumes a close heel and looks up at me as if asking for a queue. I am not sure if the stim feels like a whop upside the head, I do know she really behaves like she does not care for it.


My trainer too was very sensitive to how the dog perceives the stim. I am sure I did not do everything correctly, I am sure I made plenty of mistakes, but I also know that how I was taught to use this collar for this particular issue corrected my problem and has made my life and my dogs life better for it. In todays environment with the PB it has probably saved her life...she is the best behaved dog on the block. I will always be grateful to Ed, this forum and the much appreciated advice from those in this community!!! And of course my trainer!!!!

Tell me you really did not stick your tounge on a charged battery....I have to tell my husband that, maybe he will try to one up you with the collar and then I will video it LOL

Hey Roni, is your method similar to the way Tritronics shows on the video that comes with the collars? I think I've followed what you've described but it's possible I'm confusing it partially with what I watched on the tape a long time ago.