Aggression problems with Rottweiler
#182231 - 02/23/2008 05:47 PM |
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I am currently fostering a male Rottweiler for a rescue group and I live in New York City (Manhattan). He is approximately 1.5-2yrs old. Rottweilers and Pitt Bulls are a dime a dozen here as many people get them that live in the outer boroughs, particularly the Bronx and Brooklyn as they are a popular macho "hood" ornament, and the shelters are filled with them.
I have a female Jack Russell Terrier and he gets along great with all dogs and I've been very diligent about exercise, we jog about 3-4 miles every morning in addition to an hour long night walk, and he gets a lunchtime walk that is about an hour too. He never is allowed to walk to out of doors ahead of me, he sleeps in his crate, he heels very nicely now and has no problems with sitting, and doing the down command in a crowd or in front of other dogs...we are working on stay.
I've had him about 6 weeks...longtime I know, but we are waiting for the proper home that understands the breed. He exhibits no aggression with food, toys or rawhide as my dog and I can take things from him and he is fine with it.
I've had a problem suddenly come up that has scared me and I'm not quite sure what to do. Manhattan is a CRAZY place with the sidewalks packed with people, loud cars, tons of dogs, babies/kids running and screaming around. There is a reason why many service dogs are given the city as a final test to see if they can handle the distractions of the city as sometimes I see seeing eye dogs being tested with handlers as I walk down Broadway.
Truman, my foster Rott, is begining to exhibit signs of aggression which I don't think is dominance, but I think it is fear? I don't know what the difference is and how to deal with it. He heels perfectly, and we were walking down the sidewalk and this man was carrying a large bag of trash that had cans in it and it was loud jostling around and Truman reacted by lunging at the guy....I think the guy almost pissed his pants in fear...then about 30 feet later he lunged at a homeless guy who was pushing all his things on the sidewalk in a large shopping cart (huge bags were tied off the side of it).
How do I begin to correct this? I got him to calm down, although it took some work, and I got him in a down/stay...I don't want this to become a pattern and I live in such a crazy city I need to nip this in the bud immediately.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh215/glohong/trumanandroommate.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh215/glohong/trumanface.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh215/glohong/IMG_0310.jpg
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Gloria Hong ]
#182234 - 02/23/2008 06:03 PM |
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Does Truman fear plastic bags or trash bags at home?
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Ingrid Halonen ]
#182237 - 02/23/2008 06:16 PM |
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No, he doesn't fear trash bags at home as somedays when I walk him out I'm taking out the trash.
How do you distinguish if this is dominance or fear??
A friend of mine was speculating it was dominance as he said he is feeling more and more comfortable with you and this is the "real him" coming out.
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Gloria Hong ]
#182241 - 02/23/2008 06:29 PM |
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Gloria - does he act like he has ever been abused? Fear aggressive dogs that do not act afraid prior to lashing out are dogs that have been pushed to the limit and act first. Fear aggression otherwise is obvious, the dog will act unsure with lips pulled back and tight, eyes wide and looking around, ears back, tail down, hindquarters down and usually try to retreat FIRST. They will act out and can become violent in thrashing and pulling to try and get away. Biting and aggression is the last option for a dog biting out of fear, unless it has been pushed to the biting point before. Then the dog has gotten a positive reaction from acting aggressively - it won by becoming aggressive. These dogs are usually very nervous and react to body posture, leaning over them, any fast or aggressive movements etc and is not generally a subtle behavior pattern.
If he is foreword moving and aggresive it is not likely a fearful reaction or behavior. What collar do you walk him in? What is his usual behavior? Is he obedient? Etc
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#182243 - 02/23/2008 06:49 PM |
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No, that is what is so weird. He has no real 'issues' or so I thought until recently. He was picked up as a stray so nothing is known about his history. Sometimes, when we are walking he will go from his ears laying flat and looking relaxed to a wrinkle in his forehead and ears up when looking at someone walking towards us, but he hasn't reacted with aggression until recently....if I were to describe his aggression it would be def forward moving.
We had snow recently and when I was walking him in central park several snow plows came charging past us and he reacted only to one of them b/c the noise was incredibly loud as it scraped the road and he looked startled, but he doesn't exhibit any signs of abuse.
I think in his case it was more of a case of neglect as he was filthy dirty, nails overgrown, and very skinny. I don't know if he reacting b/c of lack of exposure of various stimulus(fear), or if it is dominance.
I walk him with a prong and have a backup collar just in case is snaps, but he really doesn't pull anymore. It took about a week of training him and god were my shoulders sore as getting him to heel was tough, but now he gets it. He is overall pretty obedient, but can be very pushy....for example: when he wants attention he will get mouthy with my hands trying to force me to pet him and I do not cave in, he has stopped trying as hard as it has afterall been 6 weeks of me trying to ignore him when he does this, but he still does it.
When he gets worked up I get him to now to go "down" on his bed and he does it now....overall a very good boy, but can be a bit "wild" when people come over as he gets very excited and jumps. I've made it clear, if you can't discipline the dog, then you can't come over....he is still learning manners and it will I think take some time, and he can be stubborn, but he is learning.
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Gloria Hong ]
#182246 - 02/23/2008 07:02 PM |
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Hey Gloria, those large black garbage bags could be kind of a shapeless form and seem like a threat to him. Maybe its not much more then him needing to be calmly exposed to them sitting still and let him investigate them. Does he lunge at people that dont have garbage bags?
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Gloria Hong ]
#182247 - 02/23/2008 07:02 PM |
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Gloria, the behavior you describe is not fear aggression. Dogs that automatically react with aggression from fear are mostly quite nervous dogs, all the time, they are alwys on the look out for something bad or scary etc and react to smaller things, they have a "hair trigger."
This sounds like territorial or dominance aggression. He mouths your hands? What do you do when he mouths your hands? This may not seem like it but anytime a dog uses its mouth on a human is not a good thing and must be corrected. Unless the dog is a sport or PPD etc that is being trained to bite. Mouthing your hands in this way is as you said.. demanding behavior. Demanding behavior is a dominant action.
What do you mean by "if you can't disciplin the dog, then you can't come over" ? Do you mean you leave it to your guests to stop his eratic behavior and jumping? If so, this is your job as alpha. I would keep him on a leash in the house and tether him to you.
Do you have the pack structure DVD? http://www.leerburg.com/308.htm
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#182250 - 02/23/2008 07:15 PM |
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He is very mouthy in general. Believe me, I correct the hell out of him for doing this and it has been greatly minimized with me, but it still continues when he gets excited. I don't know if you have clicked on his pic (the link I put up), but some people have speculated his age as young as 9 months? I don't know if he is still a "puppy" which is why he is still so mouthy?
What I mean by "if you can't discipline the dog" is that when he jumps on people that have come over I've had friends greet him him laughs and bear hugs and he gives them kisses by putting his front paws on their shoulders....basically giving him a reward for doing what I don't want so yes, i realize this is my job, but we aren't living in a perfect world where everyone understands what is acceptable with dogs and isn't and guests have to be told to not encourage certain things so that is what I meant.
Yes, we are practicing having people come over now and I have him on leash and correct him for getting way over excited and jumping, etc, but I think this is going to take sometime....he did come from I think a severe neglect condition and he gets very excited when any attention is given to him.
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: steve strom ]
#182251 - 02/23/2008 07:20 PM |
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That is what I thought too, so I had my friend carry a large black garbage bag and walk towards us on leash and nothing happened?? I don't know if it was the noise, in addition to the street traffic in addition to walking on a narrow sidewalk with other people....so many variables with living in nyc....
It's only happened twice, but good lord was it kinda scary having a nearly 100 lb dog lunging and growling at someone...
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Re: Aggression problems with Rottweiler
[Re: Gloria Hong ]
#182252 - 02/23/2008 07:22 PM |
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Gloria-
He does look a bit young but it can be hard to tell from pictures.
Regarding people coming over - tethering him to you will prevent them from being able to do this. It is your job to control him and decide when he can be petted etc, allowing him to become overly excited to where he misbehaves, jumps, etc and THEN correcting him is not as affective as preventing the whole situation. Start by making him sit and be calm before being petted or greeting people. If he does not calm down take him to another room or calmy quietly put him in his crate (Does he have a crate?) which optimally should be in a different room from the visitors so he cannot see them and get more wound up in his crate.
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