Tammy Wingete wrote 03/03/2008 10:51 PM cross training #183839 - 03/03/2008 10:51 PM
Tammy Wingete Webboard User Reg: 04-14-2007 Posts: 4 Loc: TN, USA Offline	We have the opportunity to buy a 2 year old male german shepherd trained and used by Homeland Security in cadaver and search and rescue. My question is do you think we could cross train him to do schuntzund and protection work? He excelled in his cadaver and search and rescue work. We were allowed to briefly look at his file. We were very impressed at what we seen. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this matter. Tammy Tallan
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Alex Corral wrote 03/04/2008 12:12 AM Re: cross training [Re: Tammy Wingete ] #183850 - 03/04/2008 12:12 AM
Alex Corral Webboard User Reg: 02-23-2007 Posts: 1102 Loc: Denver, CO Offline	I don't think that would be a problem. SchH does involve FST.
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Al Curbow wrote 03/04/2008 12:32 AM Re: cross training [Re: Tammy Wingete ] #183851 - 03/04/2008 12:32 AM
Al Curbow Webboard User Reg: 06-30-2005 Posts: 974 Loc: northeast Offline	Why would a 2 yr old dog that "excelled" at his work be put up for sale?..........
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David C.Frost wrote 03/04/2008 06:35 AM Re: cross training [Re: Al Curbow ] #183866 - 03/04/2008 06:35 AM
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002 Posts: 1204 Loc: Nashville, TN Offline	Quote: al curbow Why would a 2 yr old dog that "excelled" at his work be put up for sale?.......... An awfully good question that certainly would need to be answered. In addition, just because a dog excels in detection does not mean it will be a good "protection" dog. I'd also wonder why they'd train the dog to find "live" and cadaver. The emphasis is on the living during rescue, not the dead bodies. DFrost Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
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Al Curbow wrote 03/04/2008 09:16 AM Re: cross training [Re: David C.Frost ] #183888 - 03/04/2008 09:16 AM
Al Curbow Webboard User Reg: 06-30-2005 Posts: 974 Loc: northeast Offline	Sounds like the "homeland security" marketing tool,or maybe there's a surplus of good dogs, lol
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 03/04/2008 09:27 AM Re: cross training [Re: Al Curbow ] #183890 - 03/04/2008 09:27 AM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	I'd pass just because of the number of red flags. As David said, a good search dog does not neccesarily a good protection dog make. Your question basically has no answer without seeing the dog.
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John Haudenshield wrote 03/04/2008 12:13 PM Re: cross training [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #183917 - 03/04/2008 12:13 PM
John Haudenshield Webboard User Reg: 07-12-2001 Posts: 447 Loc: Virginia Offline	To my knowledge DHS does not deal with dogs directly, unless you mean FEMA USAR Dogs. If that's the case, then I'd definitely question the cross-training on cadaver. John Haudenshield The School for Dogs
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Sandra Vernlund wrote 03/04/2008 02:54 PM Re: cross training [Re: John Haudenshield ] #183935 - 03/04/2008 02:54 PM
Sandra Vernlund Webboard User Reg: 01-22-2008 Posts: 292 Loc: South Dakota Offline	I see many red flags also. FEMA does not even start the certification process for disaster dogs until they are at least three years old. DHS will only used NIMS credentialed dogs. When you looked at his file, did that mean his training records? How much are they asking for this dog? Most SAR organizations will not allow SAR dogs to be cross-trained in Schutzhund and protection work. IMO I would do some investigating on this one. Sandy
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Angela Burrell wrote 03/04/2008 03:33 PM Re: cross training [Re: Sandra Vernlund ] #183938 - 03/04/2008 03:33 PM
Angela Burrell Webboard User Reg: 05-10-2006 Posts: 2273 Loc: Ontario, Canada Offline	I have also read that any dog with bite training cannot be used for SAR. So training him in Schutzhund would basically invalidate his SAR certifications.
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Nancy Jocoy wrote 03/05/2008 06:37 AM Re: cross training [Re: Angela Burrell ] #184040 - 03/05/2008 06:37 AM
Nancy Jocoy Webboard User Reg: 05-03-2003 Posts: 924 Loc: Offline	Angela, some teams do allow dogs with schutzhund work to do SAR(most do not) but.......... I agree with the others something sure smells fishy here.
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