Hi,
The training director at my local sch club advised
me to bring my 3 month old pup out on to the training field with all the other young dogs(mainly
dogs under a year old. what she does is tell every
one to spread out in a circle with your dog on lead
and a helper with a tug on a string runs around
inside the circle whipping the tug around coaxing
the dogs to come out after it. My pup has good drive
towards a ball or a tug when i play with her one on
one but when i take her out on the field with all
the other dogs she shows little or no interest in
the helper or the tug. she just keeps barking and
pulling towards the other dogs. I have done this
circle thing with her now once a week for 3 weeks
and she still is more concerned with her surroundings and the other dogs. I am new to the sport and don't know if i should continue doing this with her or wait till she's a little older(she is 4 months now). I have Ed's tape(bite training puppies), and do try and use those methods for stimulating prey drive in my pup. I just don't know if this group thing on the field with 15 other dogs is benaficial at this point.Thanks for any opinions or advice on this matter.

I would say the pup is a bit young for that... if he is showing signs of disintrest... which of course he will because it is all to much for him, don't push the issue... my pup was the same way at 3 months.. now almost 7 months he will chase the tug with anybody.

From what you said in your post it sounds like she is fine one on one? If that is the case disinterested may not be the correct word, distracted is more like it. You need to look at each dog indivdually and work them accordingly. If it is not working for your dog then it is not productive. You could in fact create problems if she is learning to be aggressive towards other dogs. Just my opinion......

This is a very common technique used on young dogs. The philosophy behind this is that the dog feeds off the energy of the other dogs. It is a drive building technique. It is also an energy saving technique for the helper. Working a puppy is much more exhausting than working an older dog. So you kill many birds with one stone. (Sorry PETA people bad analogy) But your dog either lacks a little prey drive or is a little nervy. I would just skip this one. Not a deal breaker.

It's pretty common for a youngster to be more interested in the dogs right next to him that are having a fit, rather than the helper who is further away and (most of the time) not directing his activity at the pup. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the pup at all. The extreme activity of the dogs beside him, at close range, overshadows the stimulation from the helper, who is further away and whose activities are not so intense. These prey circles are a lazy man's dog training, in my opinion.

Can't argue with what you said Sch3FH2. My personal feelings is if a dog focuses on the dog next to him rather then a helper trying to put my dog into prey then this is a problem. That's just me though. It is also hard to give an accurate opinion without seeing his reactions.

I'm guessing when she said 15 dogs were on the field at the same time, she's exaggerating, but she's suggesting it's quite a few, which I'm picturing being a very large circle, in order to spread the dogs out. That means that much of the time, the helper is a LONG ways away from the pup and facing away from him. Not much attraction there, but there's tons of it only 8' away on both sides from other dogs. That's the reaction I saw all the time at the club I used to be in where this was a common occurrance. Most young dogs could only stay focused on the helper when he was directing his energy towards THAT dog; the rest of the time, they were learning to "fence-fight". Not very productive.

My other concern on these "group" activities is that you usually have anywhere from an 18 month old to this little THREE month old in the same group. The helper may use his tools of aggression (posturing, eyes, whip, etc) on the older dogs, with no concern for the fact that the little baby in the group is being exposed to the same stimuli, albeit watered down cuz it isn't directly right at him. The barks of the older dogs may be quite defensive in tone and the little guy absorbs this as well. What we think of as a prey exercise for the pup is probably sending mixed signals to him because the helper isn't conscious of the effect he may be having on other dogs in the group when he is aggitating.

The helper may use his tools of aggression (posturing, eyes, whip, etc) on the older dogs, with no concern for the fact that the little baby in the group is being exposed to the same stimuli

Very good point.

Thank's for the input everyone,
I do agree that i see this prey circle as a
distraction at this point. I will ask the helper
to work with her one on one at this point. The circles they form are way too tight for the amount
of dogs being worked. Most of the time you're only
7 or 8 feet from the person next to you, and when
the helper comes by if you're dog doesn't go for
the tug immediatly, he just moves to the next dog.
Is this type of circle training really nececary to
bring along a young dog? or can a dog(with good drive)do just as well being worked in prey by the
handler in the beginning , and then moved to a
helper. and should i use a diferent helper for
defense later on
I'm sorry if these questions are not under
the proper topic, i will post under schutzund
training next time.

here is some humor for all the dog owners on this board: yesterday I had one of my shepherd's in the car and was in a parking lot waiting for my daughter to come back, and a man walked up to my car and started decussion shepherds he told me you have a nice dog is he trained? he is really quiet I said don't reach for me or open the door he said well my shepherd is big mean and bad he would not be sitting quiet looking at you, like that and mine is "shitson" trained <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I said you mean "schutzhund" trained don't you? he said no lady not that sissy stuff I mean he does every thing" he is a big mean killing machine! I fought to keep a zipper on my mouth because he was so stupid and it could have gotten into a heated decussion saved by my daughter's return as I drove off I laughed and saw the humor in it do people like him train to be that stupid or are they born with it" I did ask him if he was on the internet he said yes I told him to go to this web sight and learn what Schutzhund really was. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />