Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
#197385 - 06/04/2008 12:31 PM |
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I have a 2 year old German Shepherd who underwent elbow dysplasia surgery at age 6mo. Due to this there was lack of good socialization during the healing process and subsequent necessary surgery (because the first didn't work.)
Admittedly this dog has shown human aggressive behavior since he was 8 weeks old. I am convinced after doing much research that this may have been due to vaccine reaction (he received multiple vaccines all at once. When we told the vets about his lunging at us after the first series, they gave him the next series and referred us to behavioral specialists!) In my research I've learned that lunging at owners at 8 weeks old is NOT normal, and it often indicates encephalitis, a common reaction to over vaccination. (I no longer vaccinate, except for rabies every 3 years, because it's required by law.)
He has always had dominant tendencies, growling around the food bowl, being pushy, etc. I think we bit off more than we could chew, honestly. We intended to get into agility or other training, but due to his lameness (he can only tolerate ~2-3mi walks/ day, and limited running/ jumping) those plans were cancelled.
Most recently, he has attacked my father, who reached down to pet him while he was resting on his side. He not only bit at him, but as my dad backed away he continued to lunge and bite him. He has bitten me and my s.o. when near his food dish (I was only near it, my s.o. actually touched him while he was eatting.) My dad is very mild mannered, and often approaches him to pet him. He has growled at me and my s.o. in this same circumstance (petting while laying down) but lately we've worked on becoming better pack leaders (not perfect!)
We feel we're at a loss for what to do. My s.o. prefers to put him down. He is a great dog 80% of the time. But his behavior lately is not acceptable. It's so hard to find a good trainer, the last one we had didn't have the best suggestions IMO for handling his budding aggression. It's scary to read the emails from people and see what some trainers recommend!
We have the DVD and I've been doing lots of reading on pack leadership. This dog does sleep on a bed in our bedroom, so I see we'll have to fix that. We had stopped using the crate at night in another room because he had started whining some nights and we equated it to him having pain from folding his legs up (his elbows are increasingly arthritic but he does not appear to be in pain most of the time.) We felt the crate may force to lay in an uncomfortable position for his joints, but I think I'll have to give it a try again.
We go first out doors, and we've returned to again having him walk beside us or behind us on walks, never ahead. He's a challenging dog in that he CONSTANTLY challenges us. He does not appear to like being pet, strangely enough. Usually if someone tries he walks away or turns his head away. Luckily we don't have children, and since he's nipped at a child's hand recently we've been keeping him away from children altogether.
Does anyone have any advice to offer, other than what we're doing? I'll take to heart Ed's advice about controlling the dogs environment more. We've been a little too soft on this dog from the start, due to his elbow problems (and feeling sorry/ making excuses for him) but realize it's caused a bigger problem. We're not dumb people, just inexperienced and feeling frustrated.
Thanks for reading all this if you were able to get through it!
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: stephanie biros ]
#197386 - 06/04/2008 12:37 PM |
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I just wanted to add, I've had to do a lot of work on *me*; I'm often timid and have had to step up and take control of situations better with this dog. I believe that he came into my life for a reason (without sounding too crazy!) and that he's here to teach me an important lesson about being stronger and firmer. In the past, I'd feel like I had no control, if another animal or person came up to my dog. I'd just let the situation unfold. With this dog, I can't allow that. I've stood between my dog (who I put in a sit) and a charging out of control dog (who was not listening to the owners shouts and who wanted to play) and ordered that dog to go away, and it worked!!!!! My dog stayed calm the whole time, and the other dog caught one look at my serious face and turned tail! It hasn't been easy, but I'm learning and I'm really trying, for my dog's sake.
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: stephanie biros ]
#197402 - 06/04/2008 02:09 PM |
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It sounds like you are doing what you are suppose to do. Remember not to baby him at all as far as your dog knows everyone one feels the same way he feels. Think about it in what way did you tell him he was spiecial becuase he hurt at least in a way he understood. You didnt so all he knows is everyones legs hurt.
With that said you have a very serious problem on your hands and I think you realize it. What is his body posture like when he walks away from peting. When I read you post something is screaming fear biter at me I dont know why thats just the feeling I get. Where was the dog laying when your dad tryed to pet him.
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: stephanie biros ]
#197403 - 06/04/2008 02:10 PM |
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Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. If the crate isn't large enough to allow for the dog to lay comfortably due to medical issues, are you able to get a larger crate? Then you won't feel (as) guilty and you can eliminate the idea that it is in pain (if it has enough padding to keep it off the hard floor and enough room) I would also suggest feeding in the crate - that way no one gets near the dog while it eats, period. It may still be grumpy about food, but no one will be able to be hurt and the dog won't be able to bite or nip. Other than that, I would suggest KEEPING the changes to keep the good behavior. If the dog is a dominant dog, the more structure the better.
I'm glad this dog has you. A lot of people would have dropped it off at the animal shelter for any one of these reasons you mentioned rather than try to fix the problems. Good Job!
Forgot to mention... if you know that your dog doesn't like to be petted, then don't make him tolerate being petted. Keep him on leash and tethered to you when out of the crate. Reinforce good behavior with a treat or toy or your voice and don't smother him. Sometimes leaning over a dog that is in pain can also cause them to react aggressively, so try to not allow people to do that.
When a flower doesn't bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower. |
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: Cameron Feathers ]
#197462 - 06/04/2008 06:52 PM |
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Just tonight my s.o. attempted at 3 different times to pet him, and every time he growled. We're trying to do the right things. I just don't understand where we're going wrong. We had pet him and tried to desensitize him around food as a pup, but once sexual maturity came, that training seems to have gone out the window. Very frustrating.
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: stephanie biros ]
#197466 - 06/04/2008 07:34 PM |
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We're trying to do the right things. I just don't understand where we're going wrong.
I would advise you to get help.
First I would have the vet do a physical and tell you whether he is likely to be in pain while lying down and also whether he can comfortably be crated. I'd get those issues out of the way so that you can move forward without constant second-guessing.
Then, I would get someone with aggression experience to come and assess the behavior (in your home -- not theirs).
If this dog is simply dominant and challenging you for top dog position, along with not liking to be touched, then advice from this board and from Ed's videos and podcasts will be extremely valuable to you. If there is some other complication, then there will be different advice.
Meanwhile, I'd follow the pack structure advice religiously. While waiting for vet say-so about the crate (padded), I'd get him out of your bedroom. A low dog bed in another room is, IMO, a far better setup for this dog.
I would also stop touching him while he's eating and not get a whole unnecessary food-aggression thing going.
I'd require that he do something for his dinner (sit or whatever obedience you choose) and then give him the food and leave him with it.
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#197467 - 06/04/2008 07:40 PM |
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BTW, your post demonstrates that you're aware of some of the things you've done wrong with this kind of dog, and I do believe that if you go at this methodically, clarifying his physical condition and any pain problems, getting a good assessment of his behavior, following Ed's suggestions to the letter -- that you can turn this around (or make a much better informed decision about whether you can't).
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#197469 - 06/04/2008 07:43 PM |
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BTW, what do/did you do when the dog growled or bit?
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#197471 - 06/04/2008 08:10 PM |
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The first time(s) we were bit, we were stunned! I yelled "NO!" and it seemed to shock him out of biting. When my dad was bit, then attacked, my yelling no and grabbing at his backside did not work, he continued his aggressive lunging/ biting. Now, when he growls, we're far more cautious, and we react (by backing away from whatever we're doing.) Not a good reaction, but he is a 90lb shepherd, and his teeth hurt! I'm not sure the proper thing to do. If you reach to pet a dog and he growls, what is the proper thing to do?
Tonight is his first night in the basement in his crate. We have a vet appt for next week. His behavior is so upsetting because we feel that we've tried to educate ourselves and "do the right thing" and it seems that it is just getting worse. We do have him sit or down for his dinner. He just seems to get more and more cautious about eating, and I'm not sure why. If anyone is in the room he'll stop and look around and growl if they're close, and/or gobble up his food very fast. I had wanted to get into a more natural diet with him (and have done research into BARF, etc.) but this diet only made his behavior that much worse (better food = bigger reaction.)
Thanks for the replies!!!
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Re: Dominance Aggression- has attacked humans!
[Re: stephanie biros ]
#197474 - 06/04/2008 09:28 PM |
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I would try to feed in another room with the door shut, or a crate if the vet thinks an appropriately sized (maybe larger to accommodate medical issues) crate is fine. Guarding the food is something that can simply be avoided without anyone getting hurt or further issues if the dog is separated and allowed to eat in peace. Definitely see about a trainer experienced in aggression to evaluate, and the vet is a great move.
Everyone makes mistakes - even trainers. WHat is MOST important is what you learn, and even more, what you do to correct it. Sounds like you are taking some great steps to find the solution.
Also, having a leash on the dog, at all times, can also help to control him if he goes for someone, but I would definitely get someone to assess the situation as you don't need a dog re-directing the aggression BACK to the person correcting either. For now, until you find someone to work with you on this I'd keep him tethered to you (Leash) or in a separate room/crate at all times. I'd also start being extremely aloof with him. He'll be following you around, and you act as if you could care less that he is there.
When a flower doesn't bloom, you fix the environment in which it grows, not the flower. |
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