Winston, a 10 mth old pug joined our family yesterday. We're following the info in the pack leader articles until our dvds arrive (pack and family pet and basic obedience). So far, so good. He's not really used to being on a leash, was in a rural setting before, and allowed to just run about with 2 other pugs.
When walking him, he's at the end of the leash. In browsing through the site, I came across a suggestion that a prong is better than a correction for young dogs, since its self correction rather than my correcting him? Is that a valid statement, or did I misunderstand? I'm wondering if its too early to think of a prong, and just wait until a) pack structure is settled and b) til the dvds arrive (probably 2-3 wks, since I'm in Canada) I guess I'm concerned about allowing a bad habit to start that I'll have to work twice as hard to fix, or since he's fairly new to the leash, having him see it as a negative by introducing a prong too soon.

Life was easier when I was blissfully ignorant and thought I knew what I was doing in training a dog, lmao!

I think at this point you may not need a prong. Basically you really need to use the least amount of collar possible. I'd only go with a prong as a last resort after luring and follow the leader doesn't work.

I prefer 'follow the leader' to teach a dog to heel properly.

It goes like this .. The nanosecond the dog gets out of position do a 180o turn doesn't matter into the dog or away from the dog. Keep doing it over and over. Even if the dog looks away for a second, turn and turn again. You may even step on his paws in the process .. oh well to bad for him. Forget about walking the dog in a straight line for the next bit.

You need to become the leader, as right now the dog thinks it is the leader that is what is happening. You are playing follow the leader with him but he is the one doing the leading! You can fix this by turning the tables on him as this will force him to pay attention and show him he is not the one in charge.

IMHO this is a problem that shouldn't require much time to correct. You have to out think the dog and try to get into its head to understand why it is doing what it is doing before going with increasingly severe (compared to a flat) correction collars.

Again IMHO a prong should be a last resort. As later on you may need a prong for more advanced OB but then the dog will be collar wise and you will have no where to go outside of a more severe prong or an e-collar. Why kill an ant with a steam roller?

Thanks, Geoff. One thing I have been doing is stopping dead in my tracks when he starts straining at the leash. If we're wandering on the grass, I don't mind if he's leading, since we're there for him to potty, as long as he's not straining at the end of the leash, if that makes sense. When we're on the sidewalk where we run into other ppl, dogs, kids, bikes, I want him by my side...or am I just going to confuse the crap out of him like that? Should I just have him by me all the time and then teach him the more relaxed version when its time for him to 'go'? Or is that going to screw up the pack structure we're trying to instill?

Trying to train a dog properly is a lot of unlearning and relearning on my part, lol!

 Quote: Melissa Charles

Thanks, Geoff. One thing I have been doing is stopping dead in my tracks when he starts straining at the leash. If we're wandering on the grass, I don't mind if he's leading, since we're there for him to potty, as long as he's not straining at the end of the leash, if that makes sense.

No problem that makes sense .. I stop dead with Sasha all the time if she starts to forge still. I find though that the 'follow the leader' forces the issue in the beginning stages of training this though.

 Quote: Melissa Charles

When we're on the sidewalk where we run into other ppl, dogs, kids, bikes, I want him by my side...or am I just going to confuse the crap out of him like that? Should I just have him by me all the time and then teach him the more relaxed version when its time for him to 'go'? Or is that going to screw up the pack structure we're trying to instill?

Trying to train a dog properly is a lot of unlearning and relearning on my part, lol!

If I were you I'd start the follow the leader in a safer place than on the sidewalk where he could come into contact with bikes and other dogs. Plus trying to train your dog with all those distractions you are not going to have a lot of success just a lot of frustration for you and the dog. I know you have to exercise the dog but you are best to separate the 2 things at this point.

Do it in baby steps keep the sessions short set the pup up for success and always end your session on something upbeat and positive for both you and the dog.

When Hans was young, just a few months old, a friend of mine came to visit and she brought me, as a gift, a small prong collar. She showed me how to put it on him. After she left, I put the collar away. It was an evil looking thing that reminded me of a torture device used during the Inquisition.

Hans kept pulling, and pulling, and pulling. Finally, in exasperation, I put the prong on him. He pulled once, yelped, and that was that. What a huge difference it made.

I am a fan of the prong collar. You don't have to correct hard with it, and if you are lucky, you won't have to correct at all.

I like the quick release prong collar. http://leerburg.com/prong.htm#quick

When we pull out the leash and collar Hans gets excited because it means we're going for a walk, and the quick release collar is fairly easy to get onto a happy squirming dog (he can squirm in a sit).

What is the view of chokes/prongs/martingales on brachiocephalic dogs? I had the idea that because so many of them already have breathing troubles, they should be kept in flat collars.

Not my breed - just curious if this would be a collar for a pug. Would it be better than a standard choke?

Or is it still a "it's the tool, not the fool" issue not matter what breed?

 Quote: edith sorenson

What is the view of chokes/prongs/martingales on brachiocephalic dogs? I had the idea that because so many of them already have breathing troubles, they should be kept in flat collars.

Not my breed - just curious if this would be a collar for a pug. Would it be better than a standard choke?

Or is it still a "it's the tool, not the fool" issue not matter what breed?

You got it. I have a Boxer, and I have used both a choke and a prong... I use the fursaver choke because I can just grab and clip onto a link... i don't use it as a choke. Martingales were designed around a grayhound's body structure, and if I have a dog I need "more" than a flat collar I go to a prong. The handler can be as gentle or as firm as is needed with it. IMHO it is more damaging to ANY dog to get repeatedly corrected and pulled around by a flat collar, which is typically worn around the base of the neck causing the choking sound that so many dogs make, than to have a correctly fitted prong or choke worn high on the neck where it is supposed to be, make one solid firm correction and be done with it. Flat collars repeatedly correcting is also a bit of a nag... no one likes to be nagged - not even dogs!

 Quote: edith sorenson

What is the view of chokes/prongs/martingales on brachiocephalic dogs? I had the idea that because so many of them already have breathing troubles, they should be kept in flat collars.

Not my breed - just curious if this would be a collar for a pug. Would it be better than a standard choke?

Or is it still a "it's the tool, not the fool" issue not matter what breed?

When I rescued a Pug, I knew zero about any toys, and less about bracheocephalic breeds.

I fell for the halter thing. (I know, I know. Hey, I was young. Younger, anyway.)

Bob Scott slapped me (e-slap) and said that halters trigger a pulling reaction.

He was sooooooooo right. Switched to a flat collar and he stopped gagging himself on the strap across the halter front.


Prong, fine. Why not? Haven't needed one for him, but would have no hesitation at all.

Choke? Not for me. I don't use one.


P.S. I was typing while Cameron was; not a response to her post.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (06/21/2008 01:26 PM)
Edit reason: p.s.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

P.S. I was typing while Cameron was; not a response to her post.

And here I thought you were picking on me

 Quote: Cameron Feathers

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

P.S. I was typing while Cameron was; not a response to her post.

And here I thought you were picking on me

Oh no no no no no! You would totally KNOW it! No guessing!