Robby is a 15 week old working line GSD. I've had him since he was 8 weeks, and have been crate training him from day 1. After 7wks of crating, he still cries and barks everytime he goes in for 5-10 minutes. He is kept in the family room on the main floor. Any time anyone goes into the basement he barks his head of for some reason. Every two hours or so, he cries for 5 mins. At around 8 am, he barks and goes crazy for an hour or more. I don't get up until 8:30 or 9am. But I wait until a rare quiet moment before I get up to let him out and play. I get up a 7:30am to let him out, quick play session and feed.

I've been following all the advice from the forum and Ed's "Common Sense Solutions to House Training Problems". I 100% ignore him in the crate. He gets fed all his meals in there. He has a bone to chew on. The crate is covered with a thick blanket. I've crate trained three adult border collies and two puppy border collies in the past using the same techniques, and with in 4 wks, I don't hear a peep out the dogs or pups.

He gets as much exercise as I can give him. I'm counting down the years until I can take him on my 5 mile runs. But for now its two outside 20-30 min fetch and tug games, some inside play for 10-15 mins while I'm getting meals ready. A 30 min walk in the school fields on a 20' leash. And other potty breaks throughout the day.

Am I missing something? Is he old enough for a bark collar? I'm building an outdoor kennel this weekend. Will that help get some energy out of him if he has some outside space? Will the kennel reverse any crate training?

Thanks.

From what I've learned with my current working line GSD, it doesn't sound like your pup is getting enough exercise. I know, it's rough. But at almost 4 months old, his energy is boundless and will increase as he gets older.

Is the school field you take him to fenced in? If so, let go of that leash .

Also, it seems from what you've written, that he's spending too much time in the crate. He should be let out much more often for longer stretches of time. A crate is yes, like a den, but can also feel like a prison for a pup/dog. It depends on how much time they spend in there.

I feel that if you let him out a lot, he won't be going through the crying and whining. Also an outside kennel isn't going to give him the energy outlet you hope for. It's just another crate environment, only bigger.

Edited to add: also make sure his crate in situated so he can see people.

Hello,

I would not use a bark collar on him. He is way too young for one. Remember he is still a baby! At this age, there should be no corrections ... only diversions.

I did my crate training a little differently.

At least with the placement anyway. I put it out of the way, in our bedroom. I figure she would appreciate a quiet environment when she needed rest - I have a parrot and cat, so it gets chaotic - and when I suspect she is about to crash from playing, I would gently lead her to her crate and reward her for going in.

I am not saying either of the crate placement is right or wrong. My method of minimizing visual and auditory stimulation works for MY puppy.

By 9 weeks old, Janka would always head into the crate herself when she feels a nap coming. But that is not to say she didn't have a few tantrums in the beginning, we just ignored it till she quiet down.

Taking your pup for a walk or have an exuberant play time would be a great way to tire out your pup. So when you come home, let it hydrate, relief itself and then calmly encourage it into its den with a favourite snack. The wee tyke would probably crash soon after.

I thank you both for your suggestions.

Sandy,
I was afraid of hearing the "he needs more exercise phrase" . Its so hard keeping him out of the crate since he need 110% watching. He will put everything into his mouth even if he has a fun toy to play with. I let him romp around the family room and kitchen with a drag leash on when I can devote that much attention to him. If I teether him, its like he's in his crate. I'm sitting while I'm inside because I live an active and physically demanding lifestyle outside of the home. I'll do what I can to give him more exercise.

Only parts of the school fields are fenced. But only a few times during our long walks does he go to the end of the 20' leash. I'd be hesitant to let off the leash completely since he has the insatiable need to put everything in his mouth. I let him prance around with grass clumps or dirt or small sticks. But I have to take away rocks, tree limbs and trash.

For now the blanket is a must because seeing people walking around or on the couch sets him off.


Rei,
I think I'm going to try putting Rob into the quiet basement and see how he does. I just would rather have him close to the family.

 Quote:

when I suspect she is about to crash from playing

After the first few days of having Rob, he has never slept while out of the crate, nor showed any signs of being tired. He's go, go, go all the time. I love it. I just wished he'd connect the dots... fussing in the crate = staying in the crate longer.

Michele, try playing fetch or letting him chase you or a ball around the school yard while dragging the long line.
It sounds like he needs to burn off some energy, and walks just don't do it like zipping around and chasing something. Like Sandy says, let go of that leash!

Any way for you to do an early morning visit to the school yard?

I wouldn't be overly concerned about him putting stuff in his mouth if you are right there with him. Gives you a good opportunity to teach him to 'leave it'!

Also, you mention letting him romp around the family room. I found with my pup that she tended to get frustrated as opposed to tired when she was romping around inside the house. Better to let him get a good, short romp outside where he can really stretch his legs out. You might have better success tethering him to you after he's burned off some energy.

IMO, I would not put him in the basement...

Michele, it's not just exercise, it's time outside the crate to be with you and family. His age makes it hard, but it's necessary. How else will he learn house manners?

He's spending too much alone time in the crate. Putting it in the basement MAY (and may not) quiet him down, but it's just more alone time. A puppy being quiet isn't the goal. A well-balanced, stable, and fulfilled puppy is the goal. Puppies and dogs need, absolutely need, interaction time with humans, lots of it. They're not wolves that like humans to leave them alone. They're dogs. Totally different mind-set when it comes to humans.

As I mentioned in another thread, having a dog or puppy is a lot of work, lots of training, lots of interacting. Frustrations, rewards, both good.

Children are a lot of work too, but I would hate to see a parent say it's too much work and leave the baby in the crib. It's necessary interaction and work, extremely necessary. There's really no other good way of doing it. The crate is a tool, not a home.

 Quote: Michele Hinton

The crate is covered with a thick blanket.

Michele,
I don't know what the climate/temperature of your house is, but this kind of stands out for me that maybe the pup is too warm in his crate. Our dog Nickie really lets me know it if he gets too warm in his crate (I have a small fan that I can turn on for him). Just a thought . . .

Hi everyone,
I'm off to work now, but just wanted to say real quick...

I'm not sure where you got the impression he was crated too much. In my first post, I only mentioned our "exercise/ play" routine ( and right now I consider obedience work as play). As in he brings me ball, I toss or tug, or engage him somehow. He's out at other times too just hanging out and chewing on a toy while I'm eating, watch tv, getting ready for work, etc.

When I get back I'll post a detailed Day-in-the-life-of-Robby schedule. And you can tell me what you think.

This is our weekday schedule:

7:30 AM - outside, 10 min of play, then we come in and I eat while Rob is tethered.
8:00 AM - Rob goes in crate and eats.
9:00 AM - I wake up, 20-30 mins of outside play time (or a walk on 20' leash)
9:30 AM - Rob tethered or on a drag leash while I do some kitchen chores or watch tv. No "interaction", unless its to redirect his mouth.
9:45 AM - Rob is crated while I go work out.
12:00 PM - I come back and we go out to play for 20-30 mins.
12:30 PM - Rob is crated while I shower.
1:10 PM - Rob is tethered or on a drag leash while I make lunch and eat.
1:30 PM - Rob is crated, eats lunch, while I get ready for work.
2:15 PM - Rob potties on our way to the car to go to work (I vet tech and work the kennel at the Vets).
5:00 PM - Quick potty break (Its very bad form where I work to give your dog anything more than a potty break if you have to bring it to work.)
8:00 PM - Quick potty break and dinner.
9:00 PM - I come home and eat. Rob is thethered or on a drag leash.
9:30 PM - minimum 30 min walk on a 20' leash around the school fields.
10:00 PM - Rob is crated while I regain sanity, relax, read training articles, hang out with friends.
12:00 AM - Outside to potty, tethered or on drag leash for 15 mins.
12:20 AM - Rob is crated, its bed time.

The only thing that will change soon is he will be kenneled in the back yard while I'm at work.

Rob seems to consistantly bark his head off at some point between 7:00 AM to 9:00 AM, whines while I'm gone to work out, and whines a few minutes between 10:00 PM and 12:00 AM. As I mentioned before, he'll sometimes whine if I leave the room, if anyone goes into the basement (steps are wooden so a distinct thumping sound is made that sets him off). IMO, he's getting enough out of crate time and exercise. There's only so much time in one day, and only so much one person can do.