Anyone have any experience in converting this behavior ? This female is fine under my wife's control and also mine. We trained Dobe's and GSD's for 50 years and have zero experience with this breed. When the owner comes the Pit turns aggressive and will attack a submissive dog for no reason other than being with her owner. She is seven years old with one week of Ob training with my wife and i which was very good. this Pit is way overweight and overheats quickly. When she is with Her owner she wold choke herself to death to get to another dog. Also this female Pit shows signs of aggression towards children. Any Pit trainers out there ? I need help as iam bringing in five Malnois next week and want this Pit retrained and out of here asap. I also failed to mention a lot of scars on the Pits body that i believe to be from fighting.

I sent you a pm about this...

Tom, how is she around other dogs when the owner is not around? Still aggressive? Do you believe the dog is being used by the owner for fighting, or is it a rescue?

Are you doing board and train with this dog?

This kind of rehab is extremely intensive and not always successful. The owner would absolutely need to be part of the rehabilitation and working with the dog aggression. If you suspect the owner is the one fighting the dog I would not board it or train it, I would contact AC with your concerns.


Without seeing the dog, her being 7 years old and having a very forward aggression towards other dogs she may never be trustworthy. I suggest a muzzle, but you *need* to work with the owner. Working with dog aggression, especially with dogs that have been fought, the dog aggression is a separate issue that needs to be worked on, on its own. I highly doubt you could reduce the aggression even by 50% in one weeks time unless you worked with her for 8 hours a day. Dog aggressive dogs need to be worked around totally neutral and fully controlled dogs, but the drive to fight is very strong and can take quite a while and a ton of energy to deal with.

I don't have a ton of experience with dogs used for fighting, only worked with a handful of dogs I sort of stole/rescued when I lived in the mountains. I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in but IMO the dog needs a muzzle and lots of work with its owner.

I can say from experience that fighting dogs can be re-trained rather well, and they have a pretty big sucess rate at this point...
If he is still being aggressive around the owner, then the owner needs to be used as the highest level of distraction, and the dog must be worked up to. Also, many times these dogs must be taught that "even here, the rules apply" once they have learned that the new rules are always in effect, they do very well!
the fact that the dog is still willing to work with you and your wife is great - and a much bigger testament to the dogs' stability than you will find in most dogs that have been rescued. Just because this guy wears his scars outside doesn't meant that he is untrustworthy by any means. If every abused dog carried the marks of past abuse as a way to identify and stay away from them, well, we wouldn't have shelters. At least with this guy (as opposed to other rescues) you have a pretty good idea of what he was trained to do.
If he acts up around the owner, and the owner has given up the idea of fighting him, first train the dog to NOT fight no matter WHO he is around. Then you teach the owner. A week is a pretty short time to do it in, but it is possible...

Cameron I agree that they can be retrained, but a muzzle is a safe guard. Tom said he wants the dog out by next week. Retraining can be done but it can take a lot more time than a week and the owner must be involved.

When I say may never be trustworthy I have the image of one of the dogs I rescued in my head. This dog was very forward in his aggression, he was hard, and dominant. His drive to fight overcame all else. I got him to the point of showing no outward signs of aggression and OB under the distraction of other dogs but this dog was not to be trusted loose with other dogs, the no aggression was strong OB, it was not a change of his want to tear into other dogs. He would focus nicely and totally ignore other dogs while on lead but the amount of supervision required to have him near other dogs off lead was way beyond most people and was tiring even for me.

The dogs that do the best with dog aggression are the ones that were attacked/the bait dogs/losers etc where the aggression is self defense, get them before they get me. These dogs can learn that the handler will protect them and does not tolerate aggressive outbursts. The dogs with the intense drive to fight don't need to be protected and are often dog-dominant. The dogs that want to fight not from a fear reaction, the dogs that won the fights, are more difficult. This is speaking from a general dog aggression POV not strictly regarding fighting pits.

There are 2 kinds of fighters, the winners and the losers, the defenders and the aggressors. To many people these two types of dog look/act the same but they are not. Neither of the two is impossible but one definitely takes more time and effort.

I'm curious if the owner wants the dog aggression stopped, is that part of why the dog came to you, Tom? Or just for OB and you found out about the dog aggression later?

Hi Jennifer: The owner called me and informed me that He is afraid of his Dog and asked that I take the Dog to the Shelter !! ( death sentence). Here in N.J. the Shelter's are full with mostly Pit Bulls and this one that I have is obese,older and covered with battle scars what was to be a favor/attempt to help out turned into a new family member. We have yet to rename Her. in the short time we have had Her She has won our heart's. As Iam typing this reply She and my Shepherd Kirby are lying at my feet as it appears She has a "leash" problem while off lead She is fine showing zero aggression, leash Her and She
tightens up and looks for trouble. At least now we have one idea of why She is aggressive and we have no problem solving this, hopefully this is all Her problems
This evening She played with our GSD's till She was exhausted and with our Male Kirby She is quite submissive. We have some Mal pups coming in and We will have our hands full and taking in a Pit Bull at this time is going to require some effort. thanks for Your help. Tom

Jennifer, I hear what you are saying, and I definately respect your experience with this. That being said, I have found it to be a more case by case thing.
The pit that I have now was actually a very sucessfull fighter, and I just learned, was 1 fight away from a grand champion title in the fight ring - 5 undefeated fights in a row. I had to appear with Ivan for the hearing, which is when I found that particular info out. For him, it took about 3 days, and there has been no aggression and no attempts at aggression since that first day. The first day after he started eating was the first real day of training with him, and that was the first time he actually acted aggressively toward other dogs. I have also had some that took a year or so, and I had to be constantly on my guard and ready to intervene. It jsut depends on the dog.
Since the dog behaves differently around Tom and his wife, that is a big clue to where the dog is at, and that the problem lies with the owner, not the dog.
Tom - being leashed is a huge disadvantage to a dog in a fight, and since she has this history, it is important to remember how vulnerable it makes a dog feel when they are leashed and others aren't. I would not allow any dog to approach her at all at first, to allow her to build up trust that you will protect her no matter what. After that, I would work on allowing dogs to approach and sniff her without her being aggressive because of it. the trust has to be built up first. I would also do a walk first as well - with two dogs on leash, then allow the sniffing and approaching after the walk, when both are tired.

Cameron I definitely agree, I thought the dog was showing aggression with Tom and his wife, not just with the owner. My main point is that the owner must work with the dog, regardless if the owner can't be a leader and control the dog then it can't be trusted while with the owner.

Trainers who can deal with the problems are a whole nuther story. You and I are more capable than 'Joe America'

The worst dog that I got when I lived in the mountains had been fought for 3 years, *over 50 times* against all sorts of animals not just other dogs. They had a picture of the animals after every fight. He had evidently killed quite a few creatures. That kind of thing was not very common up there but nobody before me had attempted to say hey we don't like this and do something about it. Up where we were the cops don't just come out to visit, it takes officers (and ambulences) an hour and a half at least to get there, by which time everyone would be long gone with any evidence.

That dog lived for 2 years after that in stable home where he was the only dog. He died of cancer at 6-7 years of age, in 2005. From having no name living chained to a tree in the woods, he became Buddy and slept on his own recliner. I know it can be done

Another factor, to me, is the age of the dog and the general temperament of the dog. Ivan could very well have still been the defender of the two and just won over the aggressor. I should have said it matters more whether the dog is the defender or aggressor type, not so much whether they were winner or loser. Buuuut I've only worked with 5 dogs I know for sure were fought, and they were not all pits. Given those numbers I am no expert, but it is not common to come across a dog used for fighting here or where I was in Wisconsin.

Most of my experience is with dogs that were dog aggressive, but not from intentional fighting. The dogs have usually fought or been attacked and then showed a lot of aggression, etc.

So yes, I am agreeing just elaborating on my point

Tom, sorry to hear the owner dumped the dog, but good to hear of her progress with you! PICTURES!!

Also, I don't know if the leash could be viewed by the dog as her being at a disadvantage, it could either be that or the leash is her cue. Speculation: Some dogs are kept in a kennel or on a chain and the putting on of the leash by a human is the cue of being moved for training or fighting.

 Quote: tom lasko

Hi Jennifer: The owner called me and informed me that He is afraid of his Dog and asked that I take the Dog to the Shelter !! ( death sentence). Here in N.J. the Shelter's are full with mostly Pit Bulls and this one that I have is obese,older and covered with battle scars what was to be a favor/attempt to help out turned into a new family member. We have yet to rename Her. in the short time we have had Her She has won our heart's. As Iam typing this reply She and my Shepherd Kirby are lying at my feet as it appears She has a "leash" problem while off lead She is fine showing zero aggression, leash Her and She
tightens up and looks for trouble. At least now we have one idea of why She is aggressive and we have no problem solving this, hopefully this is all Her problems

Tom, she's lucky to have found you! You and your wife have kind hearts...
(and your hands full with 5 mal pups on the way! )

I have a male APBT that was rescued from a dog fighter. He has a very strong pedigree. Fortunately he is a cold dog..does not show any interest in fighting. He would have been culled from a dog fighters breeding program. I have done extensive research on this breed as my husband had him before we got married and I had concerns bringing this dog around my children. Here is my point, if this dog is truely bred from fighting dogs it is bred to fight. It will fight because that is what it is bred to do, just like a retreiver will retreive. It does not need to be trained to fight, a dog fighter would condition the dogs body. What is key with a dog such as this is to become a VERY STRONG leader, and make the dog understand the behavior is unacceptable. You should also be aware of what a dog like this is capable of. Know the dogs body language so you may prevent the dog from going into drive.

This dog should always be monitored around other dogs and it should be trained to be submissive at all times to the leader around other dogs. Even if another dogs starts the aggression you want to avoid a situation where this dog could revert to what it is bred for.

Make no mistakes, this is a huge responsibility! I also have a female that has to fight everything she is when she is around other dogs, but thanks to Ed and this site I was able to understand where her aggression comes from and how to manage it. Both my PBs reward me a million times over with their loyalty and respect, but I never forget what they are. IMO it is the only responsible thing to do with this breed of dog.

I agree with the previous poster, any PB fortunate enough to find an owner willing to make this committment is truely blessed. Good luck, strong training and the guidance you will find here can make you feel you have truely done your dog right! It has for me.

Also know a PB is a slow dog to mature. It may very well "grow" into it's aggression. Be aware of this. My female at 7 is finally starting to show signs of lessoned fight drive...I still always watch her very closely. Research the breed and really know what you have, it will pay off, I promise.