I have been helping a neighbor change her pup's diet from commercial kibble to raw; however, have not been as successful as I would like. First, some background:

My neighbor has a GSD that is about 6 months old. We became acquainted when she saw that I also own a GSD pup and complimented on my pup's coat and small amount of fecal matter. Naturally, we started a discussion on feeding and I have been directing her to various sources to learn about, what I like to call: normal diet (i.e., raw). Finally, she decided to take the leap and decided to go the path of gradually introducing raw by adding a chicken neck to her pup's Canidae kibble. This went on for about 3 weeks and since there was no change in stool, decided to up the chicken to half a chicken back. This is when it started to go wrong.

She accompanied me to the local market where I pick up random bagfuls of cheap meat and bones for my pup. I had her buy a bag of chicken scraps that were being sold for people to prepare soup broths. The scraps were whole chicken backs and necks. I also bought a few bags (couldn't resist a deal - $1.50 for a 3 lbs bag!). She then cut the backs in half and gave one to her pup with every meal beginning Sunday. All was well for the next few days - stool was normal, etc. Then, on Tuesday evening, her pup had diarrhea in her crate at around 3:00 AM followed by vomiting. Her pup proceeded to vomit four more times outside and another bout of diarrhea. Understandably, she pounded on my door in panic.

I instructed her to not give her pup breakfast that morning and to focus on getting her hydrated. I also told my neighbor to boil some chicken breast (no additives) and give it to her dog for lunch and dinner. Unfortunately, pumpkin paste I have not been able to find since moving here to Toronto; so, I also had her cook up some white rice. The pup had a bowel movement on the following morning, but was still on the watery side. She took this sample to the vet and all tests came back negative (i.e., giardia, salmonella, worms, coccidia, etc.). This morning, the bowel movement was reported to be the same - watery.

I am not sure what is going wrong here so would like some tips. This is the first time I have participated in switching a commercially-fed pup to raw so I am not experienced. My pup ate the same chicken parts without issue so I do not believe it is a problem with the chicken. The one anomaly would be that she bathed her pup on Tuesday night before dinner. She tells me her pup has been bathed before with an all natural soap without issues before, but this time, the dog licked the edge of the bathtub where she normally rests her bar of Ivory soap. So, I am wondering if this would be enough to cause this type of reaction from a pup? The timing of her in-crate diarrhea does seem to correlate with something she consumed over dinner, but it seems also unlikely. I know every pup is different, but I've bathed mine a few times before and I am sure she licked where my soap bar's resting place as well.

Fortunately, my neighbor is not discouraged will continue to introduce the raw diet. I also suggested that once her pup's stool is back to normal on the chicken breast to just switch to a raw chicken breast and slowly add a chunk of back in, followed by other parts and take this as an opportunity to switch cold turkey and toss out the kibble.

As usual, any insights that I can pass along would be much appreciated. Thank you.

EDIT: Missed the vomiting. Is it still happening?


If not, then I'd fast the dog for a day but make SURE that fluid intake is good (baiting water if necessary). Then soft mushy white rice gruel, with a lil poached white (no skin, no fat) poultry breast added in if she has it.

Then SMALL amounts of new food, AFTER poops are normal, removing skin (fat) and not moving on if poops are soft again.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (07/17/2008 01:34 PM)
Edit reason: add first line

New-raw diarrhea is almost always too much food at once or too much fat left on at first.


Vomiting..... is that still happening?

Hi Connie,

Knew you would have great advice. Thanks!

Vomiting I do not believe is still happening. I saw the pup this morning and the day-of and she seems normal (not lethargic, drinks plenty, high in energy, etc.).

She eats only boiled chicken breast right now with all the fat trimmed off. Eats about 2 breasts a day I think.

I had her pour a bit of the water from boiling the chicken into the pups water as bait; so I am quite confident that she remains hydrated.

My neighbor tells me her poop/diarrhea is tiny compared to before. I think that is just because the pup is eating real chicken and it is pretty much pure protein - certainly not kibble!

Is it ok to fast a 6 month old pup? And, when you say SMALL amounts of food - does that mean even less quantity? On the morning she had the diarrhea, she only got about 1 pound of chicken breast total and yesterday I believe she got about 1.5 pounds. Is this considered small enough?

Also, she tells me that since the diarrhea, no salmon oil is being added to the chicken either.

Thanks again,
Siaty

 Quote:

by adding a chicken neck to her pup's Canidae kibble

Don't add raw food in with kibble in the same meal. They should be 2 separate meals.

 Quote: siaty mantak

She eats only boiled chicken breast right now with all the fat trimmed off. Eats about 2 breasts a day I think.

That's after a 12-hour fast with fluids? Don't stay on this after poops are normal, I'm sure you know, because of the lack of calcium. Fine for a couple of days if it's firming up the poops.

 Quote: siaty mantak

... when you say SMALL amounts of food - does that mean even less quantity? On the morning she had the diarrhea, she only got about 1 pound of chicken breast total and yesterday I believe she got about 1.5 pounds. Is this considered small enough?

What I meant "small" about was the new food (necks) that appeared to trigger the diarrhea.

So when the rice gruel with poached white chicken has formed the poop to nomal, then the new food (necks) are added (in separate meals) in small amounts with no skin or fat. Not a whole one at every meal until the reaction to small amounts is seen, then gradually increased.

Salmon oil is very unlikely to trigger or contribute to diarrhea, IMO.

P.S. Of course, if the dog continues with diarrhea (or vomits again), then the vet is needed.

Better news - her owner tells me her poop this morning was more normal - two logs (one normal, one soft). So, I told her to keep feeding the poached chicken breast and add a small piece of frozen chicken back with fat removed for calcium. The salmon oil was added back in last night.

Is it safe to just switch from poached to raw chicken breast?

And, in the future, when I convince others to switch from kibble to raw, is the safest route to:

1. Fast dog/pup for 24/12 hours respectively
2. Introduce with poached chicken breast
3. Gradually add other chicken parts without fat or skin
4. Add whole parts with some fat

Thanks again!

1.
Slow down!

Change nothing until all poop is normal. Then change sloooooowly.

Soothing inflamed gut WAY trumps "balance."


2.
I switch adopted dogs by starting them on plain white skinless chicken, three small meals, and see what happens. All is usually well, so I gradually add (one item a day or every two days) fish oil, then bones, then some of the skin/fat, then yoguurt, then a tiny bit of organ meat, and so on.

If the dog is a senior and very suspicious of new textures, I use ground poultry that first day.

And NO changes are made if there is any diarrhea; I back up and go slower.

Most dogs are great with a cold-turkey switch, but this method eliminates all potential problems. Worth it to me.

Connie- when you say plain white skinless chicken you mean raw, right?

When you say three small meals: do you mean small in proportion to what they will eventually eat daily, or the correct amount just broken into more meals? I'm also asking because I was wondering how long they should/can eat reduced rations?