I have searched thru the forum, I can't really find the answer. I also posted similar questions last time but hopefully I have better luck this time ... I am new in this sport, just try to minimise the any mistake in bite work

1. when training a pup for prey drive using tug or ball, how do I take the prey item from the dog ? do I give "out" command, then give him a food & take the prey item way from his mount ? or just take it way without giving the "Out" command ?

2. when the pup (grows older.. 5 or 6 mths), then the grip get stronger, but no willing to trade the prey item (tug or ball) with food, how should I take it from the dog ? Do I have to give the Out command & give a light correction to let him drop the item ? or just take it way without giving the "Out" command ?

3. when the young adult dog learning to bite the sleeve, what is the way to teach the dog to learn the "Out" before moving on the correction stage ?

Many thanks

Do a search for the "two ball" game here on the site.

Stan,
You're in the SchH forum, so I assume that is where the interest lies. I'm pretty green to the sport as well. However, I don't think the two ball game is recommended for a sport dog. I'd have to research it, but I remember that line from one of the Ed Frawley dvd's. For the moment I think you want to concentrate on building drive, and allowing the dog to win the 'fight'. Lots of time for the out yet. In the end you want him NOT willing to give it up.

If my dog is not learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

PS.
Do you have the 'Building drive and Focus' dvd?

Stanley,
I belive Randy is correct about what is reccomended by Ed about the 2 ball game, but I think it's much better to use two balls. My dogs have never developed a chewy grip because of it and one of my 3 definitely is a genetic chewer. I should say was a chewer.
I'd use the 2 balls to get the drive built up a bit, then quick as possible, switch over to 1 ball. It is difficult to explain everything in an e-mail because every dog is different and when seeing the dog you find little idiosyncrasies that were important and for some reason didn't come across in the e-mail.
Don't worry about the out to much. I wouldn't take the ball from the dog initially. I'd play with him and then pet him and make him feel as comfortable as possible until he begins to chew: at that point I'd say out and make him release the ball. There are many more problems getting a dog to get, and keep a full mouth grip then there are getting the dog to out. Outing a dog is not usually a problem. Of course as soon as I say that sombody will come up with an exception: however this is a general rule of thumb not a hard and fast rule because there are always exceptions.
I find that more grip problems are caused when people try to make their dog out before they're ready for it. Let the dog tell you when he's ready. He'll show you by dropping the ball or beggining to chew. Another thing I see that causes a lot of grip problems are using those hollow soft balls instead of a ball that is correctly hard for the dog.

I do my "out" training completely separate from drive building and tug work.

My out training takes place with two balls.
I throw one ball. Pup gets ball and brings it back. I tell her out, and wait for her to drop the ball. She drops the ball, I throw the next one.

I don't combine the out command with her drive building or tug work right now. "Out" is limited entirely to spitting out nasty things (like rocks, trash, etc), and dropping the ball for another throw.

So from the prospective of us beginners, would you guys prefer to deal with a dirty hectic bite, or a reluctant out?
I used to do the two ball game with retrieves, however it's a different game when the dog has the (sometimes semi-live)pray in their mouth. A soft bite and an easy out is paramount. That you folks can spot problems and correct during the course for a real hold and grip with the same game is I think a testiment to your reading and training skill of the dog.
That being said; which mistake (because as beginners, well you know) is easier to deal with at the local club level. Lousy chewy bites, or reluctant outs?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

From a decoy perspective, I'd rather deal with the Out than trying to fix a hectic chewy bite. Once the bite sucks its a pain in the ass to set the grip again.

Chewy bites are a pain to correct. It's the dog equivilant of trying to learn to write with your "off" hand.

Retraining a clean out, from reluctant or unwilling outs, not such a pain.

I don't correllate the two-ball game with bitework. I'm just playing fetch with the dog, completely separate from any bitework. I guess if I had to call it anything, it'd be imprinting for later work.

I don't out my dog from a bite right now- only on retrieves and/or puppy exploration.

 Quote: stanley yee

I have searched thru the forum, I can't really find the answer. I also posted similar questions last time but hopefully I have better luck this time ... I am new in this sport, just try to minimise the any mistake in bite work

1. when training a pup for prey drive using tug or ball, how do I take the prey item from the dog ? do I give "out" command, then give him a food & take the prey item way from his mount ? or just take it way without giving the "Out" command ?

2. when the pup (grows older.. 5 or 6 mths), then the grip get stronger, but no willing to trade the prey item (tug or ball) with food, how should I take it from the dog ? Do I have to give the Out command & give a light correction to let him drop the item ? or just take it way without giving the "Out" command ?

3. when the young adult dog learning to bite the sleeve, what is the way to teach the dog to learn the "Out" before moving on the correction stage ?

Many thanks

You should use drive and marker to teach the out, the reason dog don't like the out is because they afraid that you will take away their toys, that is the root cause of dirty out, hesitate out or whatever you want to call it, you must teach the dog that out does not mean losing their toy, out means play again.
When playing tug with your dog, pull the tug or ball close to your leg and hold it tight, then command out and wait until he out, don't repeat out again, just wait until he out, as soon as he let go and he will let go, could be 30 seconds could be 5 minutes, but as soon as he out you mark the right behavior with a word like yes, ok, free... then let him bite again and pull and play tug make it fun then repeat, at the end of the session do the same thing except use a command like "give" instead of out then put it away, this teach the dog that out means the faster i out the faster I get to play again, and "give" means games over.
Soon, you will have a dog that out cleanly and fast and you won't even have to deal with question # 2 or 3.

Randy,
I think your asking the wrong question. " Would you guys prefer to deal with a dirty hectic bite, or a reluctant out"?
The answer to this was in my previous post. The question itself reveals a basic misunderstanding of bite training. I notice the same thing in Alyssa's post. All work done with the dog is related. Whether it's what you call bitework directly, drive building/OB, or tracking it's all connected. What you do in one area affects the others. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's not connected.