I have a 12-year-old female golden retriever and a 4-1/2 month old male rottweiler. This is my third rottie, so I have some experience with them, but this little guy needs some correcting that I don't know how to do.

I got him 2-1/2 months ago when he was 8 weeks old, and the first few days were a little tense for them, but they learned to get along quickly and there are no problems in that regard. He's a very hard, dominant puppy compared to the others I've had, but I've learned a lot about handling a puppy like that from this site and he's making great progress. He dominates her without question, but she's OK with that. Sometimes he bites her too hard, but I've just about gotten him out of that habit. In general, they get along fine and he likes to lie with her and groom her, licking her ears, gums, etc. and when she's in the mood they play tug-of-war and have great fun together. I'm not at all concerned about their relationship.

The problem is he won't let her play fetch with me. I think it's just his prey drive, or a dominance issue, or both. I don't think it's jealousy, because he has no problem with me giving her tummy rubs, having her lie in my lap, petting her, or any other affection I might show her. I can give her all the loving I want, and he's happy to play with his toys while I do it. But, let me throw a toy for her to fetch and he immediately drops whatever toy we've been playing with to snatch it from her, even if he doesn't want it. He'll take it from her, bring it to me and now it's his toy and he wants to play.

The frustrating part is, she's pretty old and she doesn't want to play much now, but when I start to play with him, she wants to join in. If I crate him (which I do from time to time just to give her some peace and quiet when he's getting a little hard to take) she doesn't want to play any more. She only wants to play when I'm playing with him, but when I try, he won't let us. He keeps intercepting her, or the toy, or both, and generally just being a brat.

I can have him sit/stay for a throw or two, or hang on to his collar, or leash him, but that's not a long-term solution unless it's a last resort. I feel bad because I can't play with my golden anymore. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 Quote: ira victor

He dominates her without question, but she's OK with that. Sometimes he bites her too hard, but I've just about gotten him out of that habit.

I see this as a huge problem. No untrained (or trained) dog should ever be allowed to dominate another dog in the house or otherwise. That is YOUR job. Especially with a large breed. The fact that he is still a pup makes it that much mroe of an issue. If he is already in charge, what will happen when he is older, stronger, smarter? Where to go from here?
At this stage of training I would not be allowing contact with the two dogs. It's not fair to your older dog. Truthfully, at this stage, seeing other dogs and "meeting" them is really not as important as is commonly believed. It is more important that you use the time to get more control over him and more boundaries. That way, when he is older it will not be such a shock. For example: If I got a pup at 8 weeks old, typically I would be starting to allow play with my older dogs (supervised) by about 4-6 months, depending on where the pup was training wise. The way you've described your pup, nope. Not yet.
Put the pup up whenever you are playing with your older dog. Same goes for when you play with the younger one. Jealousy is much easier to deal with when neither dog feels the need. I also wanted to add... since your older dog is only interested when the pup is playing, it means he is more interesting than you are. To get her to play you need to be a little more interesting. But as far as their relationship goes, it's fine NOW. A few months from now, if you do not stop the jealousy issues NOW you may be writing a very different post...
It's important to have a bond with each dog INDEPENDENTLY of each other. This means that it is always a good idea to have at least SOME play sessions that are one on one. Builds better bonds, better work, everything. And I would only be playing with both when both dogs are under total command. That way, if it's time to stop, or one dog starts to growl, you still have instant response from EITHER dog. Very important for a powerful breed.

Edited by Cameron Feathers (07/29/2008 05:34 PM)
Edit reason: added info

 Quote: cameron feathers

... If he is already in charge, what will happen when he is older, stronger, smarter? Where to go from here?

I gotta say that the pup biting the senior jumped out at me too.

It's not a "habit" to "gradually get him out of," IMO. It's just 100% not allowed by me, the pack leader, period.

I'd do what Cameron said and separate them, and work on your bond with each dog apart from the other.

One way to up the level of interest in you (with the senior) is to introduce her to a new and fun activity involving markers, with rewards of extremely high-value treats.

If your question is merely, how do I correct a 4.5 month old pup, the short answer is, shake them by the scruff until they yipe- just like mama would have done.

This post brings up some of the same questions for me and my dogs. If you have more than one dog and you are playing fetch with them all, for example, none of the dogs should try to take to toy away from another?

My lab pup will bite my older one when he is trying to retrieve. Not hard, she just annoys the older. My older one ignores her mostly. My Great Dane used to do this, but grew out of it. Are these behaviors different than the posted, or the same?

When toys are in the yard with multiple dogs, should all the dogs leave each other alone? I'm having a hard time understanding the subtlties here. How does one distinguish between dogs playing and subtle dominance issues that need to be addressed?

"Team Fetch" is a rarity at my house. Once in a while I let a certain combo of dogs out to romp around, but it is not more that three times a month, maybe......

This game creates chaos and dog fights IMO if not done correctly, and the bottom line is, people need to make sure that they ARE the pack leader and that the dogs know their place.

So to answer questions....dogs are dogs, and dogs with high prey drive are difficult to teach that they cannot take the ball or whatever toy they want from another dog.

When I have two or more dogs out, they ALL get their own ball. This is easiest as mine are all HIGH in possession, so if they have their own, they do not want to part with it unless it involves me telling them to out....or they want me to throw it again.

I have three dogs and put out 4 toys in order to give all dogs a toy, however my puppy (8 months) typically only wants the one another dog has. I get the point though...I'm going to play with them one at a time from now on to avoid this problem, and I can see that it will only serve to strengthen my dogs interest in ME.

 Quote: alyssa myracle

If your question is merely, how do I correct a 4.5 month old pup, the short answer is, shake them by the scruff until they yipe- just like mama would have done.

I actually decided to do this earlier, and it worked, at least for that play period. After a few yipes, he was letting her play with me and not interfering.

Sure, keeping them separated is a possibility, but would you do that with your kids? Not that I think of them as human children, but we all have to live under the same roof, and if I can correct his behavior without separating them, that's the way to go. Luckily, I have the time to keep an eye on them, and if I can play with them both without having to "jail" one of them (would you do that if you were teaching your kids to get along?) so much the better.

Maybe I gave the wrong impression in my original post. Yes, he's the dominant one, but he lets her live her life and have fun. He doesn't keep riding herd on her. The only problem they had was playing fetch, and for the moment, Alyssa's reply seems to work.

Thanks, everyone!

Edit: as for forming a bond with them, I've already done that. Both of them accept me as undisputed alpha, I'm just trying to break him of this one habit.

 Quote: ira victor

.... Yes, he's the dominant one, but he lets her live her life and have fun .... Both of them accept me as undisputed alpha, I'm just trying to break him of this one habit.

But

 Quote: ira victor

... Sometimes he bites her too hard, but I've just about gotten him out of that habit.

Not to beat it to death, but that's not OK with me. As undisputed alpha, I would not allow that in a "just about gotten him out of that habit" way.

He is setting the dog-dog aggression rules, it seems to me. Not you.

I'm not trying to quarrel. I'm interested in why you don't view this as the puppy making the rules about aggression.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I'm interested in why you don't view this as the puppy making the rules about aggression.

Because I don't know as much as I should about a lot of things, including corrections. Up until now, I've been correcting him too gently, but he's too hard for that. I've been getting tougher myself, shaking his neck and making him yelp, and it's really helping. He's stopped biting the older dog just within the last day, although he still likes to play with her.

I didn't have to do this with my other two rotties, so this was new to me. If a few days of neck shaking and puppy yipes can accomplish what a would take a few months in the crate, I'm all for it.

Like I said, I make the rules, except for this one specific issue. I think I just needed to make the rules a little differently, but I didn't know how. That's why I was asking here for suggestions.

Anyway, as much as I might hate making him cry out, it's doing wonders for both of us, so with a little luck that might take care of it. He's a great pup and already devoted to me. He just doesn't respond well to gentle corrections, but I'm learning that he does to hard ones. And once I correct him hard a couple of times, he seems to remember. Let's see how it goes over the next couple of days.