Can anyone tell me the difference between american bulldogs and american pit bull terriers? Other than size.

American Bulldogs


American Pitbull Terrier

There are really 2 different types of American Bulldogs. Standard and Johnson. The standard are very close to Pit Bull terriers and therefore are better for working. The Johnson type closely resembles the English Bulldog and are not as athletic OR good looking IMHO.

To elaborate a little on Alex's post, Standard/Scott/Performance type ABs are primarily similar in physical appearance to the APBT or AmStaff, being that they are longer legged, have narrower chests and hindquarters than the Johnson type dogs. The standard/performance type of AB is the traditional AB, the Johnson line dogs were created using some standard stock and mixing English Bulldogs into the lines. JDJ himself states he does not breed for work ability or drive. There are some very nice Johnson "type" dogs that while quite large and not as athletic as the standard dogs, are drivey and capable of some(if not the highest levels) of work.

For working, longevity, athleticism and performance I suggest working bred standard type dogs. If you want a big bully snub nosed couch potato, most Johnson type dogs are very happy to accomodate you.

There is a lot of mud in the AB world right now and if you are getting a pup you may find them widely available but beware. Everybody and their mother is breeding ABs these days and if you are serious about work there are several great lines to look at and breeders I can refer someone to (via PM) Even just for a family companion I would suggest looking around at some of the better breeders as you will get a more stable, healthier dog.

Of the standard type AB lines you will find several types as well, there are dogs primarily bred for catchwork/hunting, and there are dogs being bred for sportwork. Often many ABs have been tested on hogs as it is considered a very important breed trait, but sport bred dogs are not hunting dogs they are sport dogs with hunting certs The dogs generally bred and kept for hunting/catchwork are often referred to as Old Southern Whites, but there are OSWs doing sportwork as well.

Johnson dogs or hybrid dogs (dogs that are a mix of Johnson and Standard lines) are often used most in weight pull.

Of course there are some kennels out there just breeding for conformation but really not very many.

ABs were originally catch dogs and guardians, the purpose is for both hog work and for manwork. They are generally very stable dogs but a big problem in the breed right now is BYB producing nervy/overly sharp/unhealthy dogs.

Standard type dogs range from of 70-100 pounds for the males and 60-90 for females with an average of 85-90 for males and 75-80 for females but this does vary by the lines. Johnson dogs tend to be larger and shorter at 80-130 for males and 70-110 for females averaging 100-115 for males and 85-90 for females.

ABs are often white or piebald/white and black/brindle/red but very rarely 100% color. An AB must have some white and a portion of white must be on the head. They range from bodysuit dogs (mantle or irish pattern white on color) to 100% white.

I had a hybrid type male and will be getting a standard type pup next month for Mondioring. People will tell you these dogs can't jump or have no wind but if conditioned properly they are very athletic long winded dogs. My last boy, Cajun, could jump into the back of a Ford F-350 with the tail gate up like it was nothing. He could turn on a dime and would jog beside my bike for miles in humid 80-85 degree summer evenings.

The biggest problem with ABs are not being "clear breathers" which is generally from having too short a muzzle (Johnson lines) or dogs kept in climate controlled environments, like an air conditioned house, will not be used to working in higher temperatures and will take longer to condition to working in higher temperatures.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Almost forgot! A problem with ABs that I have recently been made aware of is some lines have dogs with rather small and fragile canines. If looking for a sportdog/working dog I suggest taking a look at the chompers on the parents and researching the lines. The biggest issue with this is with the Johnson type dogs but it is in the standard lines as well. A dog with small and weak teeth with not fare well in bitework.

Great post, Jennifer!

I would get so frustrated when people would call my AB a Pitt Bull.

In my experience with both breeds, the AB is a lot more laid back. To me, any terrier breed has very high prey drives that can be difficult to mold or control with proofed reliability when those drives need to be put on the back burner.

As Jennifer touched on, these dogs can have a hard time being active in a hot/humid environment. After working with ABs, Pitts, Rotties and GSDs, for me the only choice for endurance in Florida in a working dog is a GSD or a Mal (which I don't have experience with.)

The ABs are also prone to CCL injury like a Rottie is.

Many homeowner's insurance policies group ABs in with Pitts for coverage exclusion.

Eric, the problems ABs have with hot weather/endurance is the type of AB they are (Johnson or Performance) and whether or not they have been conditioned for it. My AB was a hybrid type, considered Performance for his longer muzzle (see picture showing muzzle length here: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb95/ambull1986/cajun049.jpg )
and he did very well in heat and humidity.

I lived in SE Wisconsin and I conditioned him in temps up to 90 degrees. I never worked him in anything hotter than that though as I am not the best with humidity LOL so I was not willing to ride my bike in anything hotter than 90 with 80-90% humidity.

I've been around all sorts of dogs that don't do well in heat and most of the problems are from being kept in air conditioned houses and not consistently worked or acclimated to the heat. Dogs left outside long enough to acclimate to the heat, that are worked in increasing intensity through the heat do far better.

I do admit some breeds have an edge but I don't agree with the general statement that ABs don't do well in heat. Johnson dogs more often than not it is true but more has to do with how the dog is conditioned and acclimated to the heat.

I am biased, of course, but IMO the AB is a good working breed. You just have to know where to look. The best dogs don't always end up with people that want to train for sport, in this breed some of the greatest dogs have no titles. Its only recently that the AB has been really used for sportwork.. here is a list of sport(Primarily SchH) titled ABs: http://www.kiwsabs.com/xtra411/titled.htm

Also, regarding drive... I think the biggest difference is that the AB has was is commonly referred to as an "off-switch" meaning they are more relaxed and settled when not working, if they have sufficient exercise and stimulation. But with drive, I have been around some extreme ABs. There are not a lot but there are some ABs out there with drive's rivaling a Mal. It is becoming more of a focus to breed ABs for high drive and work ability(in regards to sportwork) than before.



Jenn

I want to thank everyone for their input! Jennifer thanks for the precise info on the breed. If I ever figure out how to post a pic, I will post one of him. And you could tell me for sure!

When I recieved him I was told he was a pit/boxer mix. But was never really sure of that. To be honest I thought AB was just another name to call a pit. After I saw you mention AB and APBT separtly in a diffent thread, I went searching. And my dog fits the look and character description of an AB to a tee!

But I wanted to ask around here. Because some of the pics I seen on an AB page were posted on a APBT page too. So I was still a little confused if they were a seperate breed.

With that difference, it still wouldn't matter to the joke being voted into office by the people for the people to make bsl that the people don't want. They still look to much like APBT but different enough that those that know a little, cock their head and ask " what kinda dog is he " At which point I answer 'he's a Cataloochie Mountain Dog' which always gets a 'mmm never heard of that kind?' LoL and they walk away scratching their head! LoL

Thanks again

Rob - a huge indication of a dog being an AB tends to be the underbite. Some ABs are called boxer mixes because people don't know any better. Most Abs are white, or predominantly white, also. You can send me a pic VIA e-mail at TheAnimalTrainer86@hotmail.com or post a link here or you can PM me.

Although I am familiar with both the Scott and Johnson lines of the AB and the goals in mind as each line was developed, it is sometimes harder and harder for me to say with confidence the exact breed/line of some of the dogs being marketed in my area as ABs.

Part of the problem is backyard breeders muddying the waters by breeding ABs with Pitts. Some sires and dams with papers, some with out, and then trying to sell the offspring as whatever they think will be of interest. I know of one breeder that is marketing his dogs as Swamp Curs. What the heck is that!!!!! He says he is using that name on various breedings to help people avoid insurance hassels. What a joke.

Regarding endurance, I have seen ABs exhibit great athleticism taking down a hog, but the required bursts of energy were short, intense expendatures. Pitts, with their often slightly longer, narrower muzzle compared to the AB, seem to last even longer hunting hogs. I'd call the drives generally equal in this area, but like Jennifer said, the ABs seem to more often come with an "Off" switch.

I have yet to find an AB or Pitt, be it one I've owned or not, that can do the 4+ mile jog with me at noon during the middle of summer with a heat index of up to 120* like my GSD does with me a few times a week. I guess we've just had different experiences in this regard.

Jennifer, what's your thoughts on shedding? I know diet, climate, etc. all come into play, but my GSD does not shed nearly as much as my Rottie or the ABs I have owned.

Eric, I agree with you about the "muddy waters" with ABs. A lot of dogs out there called ABs are not, they are crossed with pits or english bulldogs. Rule of thumb with ABs, the longer the muzzle the cleaner the breathing. Though I have seen some shorter muzzled dogs do very well, but they are short.. hmm.. regular muzzles, not short pushed up noses. Johnsons have a more sour mug look where the muzzle is not only short but the stop is extremely pronounced and the eyes seem to bulge. I've seen dogs with a 2.5" muzzle that were clean breathers, but they did not have as pronounced of a stop, the nose was not pushed up, just that the muzzle was short.

Always hard to say. My AB jogged with me for 13 miles one evening. It was only 87 degrees but humidity was close to 80%, and the country was hilly. I believe the HI was around 105, not entirely sure though. Two short (15 minute or so) breaks and we finished at around the 3 hour mark, I think a little longer. Most of my rides with him were around 7-8 miles (I rode my bike, he jogged with me)

I never rode in the sun, however. He never seemed to mind it much for regular activities, he'd go tearing around the field and would play 2-ball for 30-45 minutes but I'm pretty sure a fair amount of that was in the shade (because thats where I would have been!)

Regarding shedding, Cajun didn't shed much, even on kibble(canidae, chicken soup, EVO). Hard to say in a general sense, not enough consistency with diet to say whether its a breed thing or a diet issue. But I took a rubber curry (horse brush) to him twice a day, outside. That may be why I never noticed shedding inside.

One thing I loved was that despite his white feet and belly, he was extremely easy to clean with that nice dense short coat. I never had to hose him off. Let him dry and curry all the gunk away and he'd be white as snow again