Hi, Board,

Just another newbie stumbling through the fascinating world of GSDs! I have an absolutely gorgeous, just turned 5 months old female, Sadie. I got the Basic Obedience video and she is doing really well. She is so smart, it is hard not to push her and I am seeking opinions on how much is too much for her age. I read on this web site (somewhere!) that Ed does not believe a puppy should be corrected until she is 8 months old except for not coming and disobeying the out command. So until she is 8 months old, the obedience training will not be as sharp as when I can use the correction? She learns very quick and seems to enjoy her "lessons". One more thing (sorry this is long), on the video, Ed uses food, but I have found that Sadie is much sharper when I have one of her toys. Is it okay to train with the toy instead of food? She likes hotdogs, but she loves her ball. Thank you so much!

Zetra

hi zetra...leerburg's puppy video is a good place to start.the "drive,focus and grip"(bernard flinks)will be a big help to you also.as far as corrections go,i've seen much better results with my dogs when they're clear about what they're required to do!i use food and toys...to imprint a certain exercise(sit,down,ect.),go thru the steps of adding distractions(slowly),and when i'm geeting good results i'll correct for disobedience(if in fact that's what it is)you can "gauge" your pup's ability to take corrections(hardness)by useing incremental stages..(collar,choke then pinch..if needed)what i mean is...if i give a correction with only the regular collar on(flat buckle collar)and it's effective,then that may be as far as i need to go,if not, then set up the same situation but this time either escalate the correction or go to the choke...get the picture!if you're training for competion obedience,you'll notice that most judges critique"the overall picture"that is...they want to see an attentive,happy working dog in the obedience routines.i'm fairly new to training also and these are observations i've seen with my own dogs.i have most of "leerburg's"tapes,and they've helped me!good luck,have fun!!!

Hi, Roger,

Thanks for the reply! I definitely would like to get the Flinks tape on drive. In fact, when I ordered the obedience tape, I was torn about getting the drive tape. I thought it was geared more to Schutzhund competition and I thought Sadie and I were more cut out for the OB competition. Thanks again!
Zetra

hi zetra...the "bernard flinks" tape will show you how to put the dog in drive and can apply to any type of performance...i think leerburg is also putting together a "flinks"tape on competion heeling also,i have the tape on competition heeling that's currently available thru leerburg(tom rose)which i think is very good also.you may find (as i did)that when your're at a group training site,you can only recieve "limited help and advise",and you'll get incomplete information as most people are concerned with their own dogs..the value of having a good"training tape"library is that it allows you to study the technics completely(and modify as needed to suit your dog).good luck!!

Thanks, Roger, for the advice. Sounds good. Now can anyone tell (maybe you, Roger) tell me how old my pup needs to be before I start using correction. (I will get the Flinks tape, but until then...) She is doing very well with sit and sit/stay for 15 sec intervals, but of course, without correction, she is in need of polish. Thank you for your help. Also, should I be posting in general obedience as the Puppy Section does not seem to get a lot of attention

Please don't take this wrong, cuz it's not meant as a wisecrack at all but... if your puppy is having trouble learning behaviors, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with needing corrections and everything to do with YOU needing to learn how to TEACH him. Pups can learn anything a big dog can learn, and it doesn't require corrections. It requires motivation, incentive, good timing, and an understanding of how dogs learn. Find a club in your area with some folks in it who are familiar with operant conditioning/learning theory, and they can easily coach you on better ways to get that pup doing anything you want him to.

hi zetra,lee....zetra,lee baragona always has solid advice,check some of her past"posts",i've seen her dogs work and they're always in drive!as i stated to you that i consider my self a "novice"at training dogs,i can only relate to you the things that i've encountered while traing my own brood...lee has posted opinions on just about every subject and she keeps it simple!however to me it seems as thou you think that the corrections are "required equiptment"to keep in your gear-bag!getting out with my dogs is a real "de-stresser" for me!i've used the "corrections" from time to time on my 4yr.old male,yet i'm trying a different aproach with my 5mo.old male pup(motivation and drive)with suitable results...there seem to be people on this board who are more than willing to give good advice...lee is in that number!have fun!!!

I'm nowhere near an expert - but I do have a puppy just a little older than yours. While I plan to compete in obedience with him my goal for these early months is to make it clear to to him that I'm the greatest thing since God invented hot dogs, that he's always safe with me, and that when we're working and he's got focus and drive good stuff will always happen. We do alot of obedience work every day, and he gets rewarded big time when he gets something right, and we do it over again if its not right. I want him to have lots of success now, so he'll work well later. Corrections aren't part of the picture at this point except in cases of dire consequences - so far only once for counter surfing and once for thinking seriously about car chasing. I'm assuming that we have years together to work towards perfectly straight sits (hopefully it won't take that long), and this time of building our relationship will be a strong foundation for the rest of his work.
I will enforce a command if I'm sure he knows it and doesn't comply, and at this stage I won't give a command I'm not prepared and ready to enforce.
ALSO - the Flinks video on Focus & Drive really is great for obedience people, too. Worth every penny and then some. Plus - its all really fun stuff to do with your dog!

Thanks, everyone, for the great posts! Lee, I guess I am getting ahead of myself with Sadie. I just need to slow down. She does everything really well and is a very apt pupil. Roger is right. I guess I just thought that correction was part of the package to make everything tight. I appreciate all the help and I am excited about the potential exhibited in my pup. Thanks again.
Zetra

Pardon there Lee but I read your reply and obviously you didnt read (or pay attention) to Zetra's original post. She clearly stated that the dog WAS doing well and was very quick to learn. Nowhere did she say the dog was having problems learning its behaviors. But of course as you know somewhere along the line corrections are going to come into play and its my opinion that Zetra was just wondering when this should be. Sorry if this sounds a little off color, its not meant to be but of course its easy to take things the wrong way when only reading and not able to hear voice tone and such.