just a quick question....

luc spent 3 years in a shelter, from a relatively young age. i think it affected how he developed mentally (but that's just me). he - compared to teagan - does not seem to be as capable of more complex reasoning. he seems to view things simply and accept what is in front of him as the way things are (doors being a helpful example; the small animal rooms have child safety knobs b/c teagan knows how to work doorknobs; she's not going to let a little thing like a door stop her from going where she wants; luc - if a door appears to be closed, than it's closed. 2+2 equals two 2's for him, not 4.

i've noticed lately he's copying neb, which is cute if weird given that one is 5 years old and the other hasn't quite reached 5 months of age yet.

luc is good at obedience - recall, sit, down, long sit/down, heeling (better off-lead than on, but he's gotten decent again at on-lead heeling) and other basic stuff. he's improved with people (to the point my biggest problem tends to be he thinks everyone wants to visit him....actually, something i need to work on with neb as well, though as problems go, i figure it's a good one) and in his fear of other dogs.

are there good exercises/things to train that will help grow a dog's brain? ....or is this a ridiculous question?

Marker training of tricks (or anything) is a great brain-worker.

http://leerburg.com/979.htm

Great little book, IMO.

Not at all ridiculous, and yes, there are things you can do to help a dog "learn" to reason.

That's part of why marker training is so great for dogs. It doesn't just train the dog to do certain things, it also trains the dogs to think ahead, reason, make connections and draw conclusions.

If you already use marker training, start training more complex tasks with it. If not, start!

Toys like the "Buster cube", can challenge dogs to make connections and use reasoning, as well.

I also like to challenge dogs by placing toys in odd places, while they are watching, so that they have to figure out how to get them. On top of, under, behind obstacles.

Edited by (08/15/2008 01:12 PM)
Edit reason: Once again, Connie posted while I was typing.

i obviously need to get that book! i try to 'mark' in obedience now, but it's clearly something i could probably learn way more about.

especially since any time i've tried to teach something more complicated - no problems with teagan, but luc always ends up stymied. i'm sure adding to my training repertoire would help with that.

alyssa, one problem is that he won't play with toys. apparently it's a shelter dog thing, but in the 11 months i had luc before i adopted neb, he held toys in his mouth twice - once i stuck a toy bone in there....he stared at me, held his lips as far away from the bone as possible, carefully sat it down next to me and then backed away, staring at me the whole while. b/c he does copy neb, he's watched a lot of the tugging, and i've got him interested enough to step on the tug a couple of times, and twice - !!!! - he put it in his mouth - but it's weird, it's like there's this overload, b/c he'll drop it and and you can almost see his brain smoking.

though, my new puppy who happens to be 5 years old has picked up one really annoying 'toy' habit - shredding toilet paper when i'm not around! maybe i could use that to good somehow, though mostly i just think of my poor toilet paper.

(p.s. - neb is looking good re: his extra girth when i got home wednesday - it's mostly gone. he did gain some height while i was gone as well, actually. phew )

i've just been reading about target training on her website and that looks great! i've tried to get luc to follow food before to do things (like teaching him to twirl) and he just got confused (whereas teagan picked it up immediately). but teaching him to follow a target could really work....neat!

 Quote: jennifer mullen

i try to 'mark' in obedience now, but it's clearly something i could probably learn way more about.

When you fully grasp the timing thing that marker training hones so well -- that split-second "snapshot" of the wanted behavior that conveys so clearly to the dog what the reward is for ...... well, you will never train without it, IMHO.

The toy thing: I have made toys desirable with a shelter dog with my own play-involvement, but I also don't worry a lot about it. JMO.

Like playing with the other dogs in the house, this is something that really can take a while. I have one who has been here for two years, and he is just starting to instigate play with a bow and a chase. And one who found some buried prey drive when Bob Scott pointed out the "circle of influence" and I started tossing the toy only a few feet from him and having a party when he even ran towards it. When he picked it up, more parties. When I chained that to "give" and started "fetch" with him, something clicked big time.

He is not a retriever now -- not at all. But he is now a dog who has fun every day, and he used to be a worried and kind of anxious stand-offish watcher.

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

i've just been reading about target training on her website and that looks great!

She has an emailed newsletter too that you might like.

Same site.

well i'm so excited to go home tonight and start teaching him a target! whoo!

i haven't stressed over the toys, though it would be nice, life will go on. when he started playing with the tug after watching neb, i made a big - BIG - deal you could tell he was excited, he looked very shiny-eyed and proud, but yes - i don't think he will transform overnight. but, from how he was when i adopted him, he learnt to play the tickle game with me (including play bows) to playing 'dumb wrestling' with teagan (including play bows....the first time he play bowed to her i cried) and now he plays 'chase tag' in the yard with me or one of the other dogs, and he also likes to play bow to neb and then sort of smack him with his foot (they both like it, i dunno). so he's improved, with respect to playing. and hopefully he will keep on doing it.

focusing on small positive stuff will help, as you've said. i wonder if i make a toy his target, if that will help make him more comfortable with toys. hmmmm.....

(he also play bows to my cats....oh, speaking of training....neb needs his recall proofed! he and luc normally go out off-lead, and the yard isn't fenced in....we met our first outdoor cat today (neb is good w/my indoor cats). neb took off after it despite me calling him....hmmmph. luc took off after neb and followed 1, 1.5 meters behind him with a 'wow! we're running! there's a cat! i have cat friends!' look on his face. neb hesitated at the neighbour's driveway and i caught the little absconder)

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

one problem is that he won't play with toys. apparently it's a shelter dog thing...

Well... Maybe it’s just a Luc thing. I mean we don’t really know much about him pre-shelter, so it is likely genetic, with a little environmental thrown it that didn’t help. I have brought shelter Rotts in that have been either locked up or chained up for long periods of time. Some play, and some don't... I have always thought it was just who they were.

Perhaps Luc is just a little more “small bus” than the other two. Not at all bad thing, as you are not going to be breeding him. And it makes him less likely to cause issues. Look at what smarty pants Tegan puts you through! He is a great running and hiking partner for you; what more could anybody want from a dog! Sound perfect!

Love him for what he is, and keep looking for things that he enjoys doing. Marker training is a GREAT way to stimulate him. It is so much fun watching them connect-the-dots! And that target is a very helpful tool.

How does he take treats? Does he have a particularly yummy kind? I ask because I do a lot of scent games with favored treats for my pups, including the fosters that come in. It does not always have to be a toy… It also helps to encourage them to 'think' about where that next treat is coming from.


Edited by JessicaKromer (08/15/2008 02:03 PM)
Edit reason: Thought maybe I sounded mean, but I really don't mean to at all! From all you have posted about him, he sounds PERFECT!

If he doesn't show much interest in toys, that's an even bigger argument for the Buster cube.
The enticing smell of food will eventually lure him. You may have to skip a meal or two, but if that's what it takes to teach him how to enjoy a toy, it is definitely worth it in the end.