 Compulsion Heel?
#207299 - 08/26/2008 06:58 AM |
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In a discussion currently with someone who simply "demands" the dog walk behind her or next to her while on walk. She does this by essentially using a short lead.
Is this considered a compulsion based training method?
The discussion then ventured into the drive (yness) of the dog. If you begin with a dog who could give a rip about pulling ahead, can it still be considered compulsion?
If you take another dog who is filled up and pumped, pulling ahead, is training with this method compulsion?
Is this method compulsion at all or simply conditioning restraint?
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Michele McAtee ]
#207300 - 08/26/2008 07:07 AM |
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If she has to walk with a short lead to get the dog to walk where she wants, then its not training.
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#207302 - 08/26/2008 07:52 AM |
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I agree with Mike... It's simply restraint of the dog.
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#207304 - 08/26/2008 07:55 AM |
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Exactly...she does not profess to be training.
She is more or less using and interpretation of the dog psychology philosophy put forth by Cesar Millan.
I was just trying to catagorize it into a method versus psychology. ???
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Michele McAtee ]
#207306 - 08/26/2008 08:36 AM |
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Its not a method. Its just holding a leash and using a short one instead of a long one.
Cesar Milan teaches the dog to follow, the dog would likely not need a leash.
Taking a dog that isn't prone to pulling and using a short leash with the dog, thats... well... nothing really. Its an owner that doesn't understand how to teach the dog something. If the dog does it or not is a different matter, some dogs are very quick to accept restraint and direction, where another dog, or rather, most dogs, would not do well with what she is doing, and would pull regardless of how short the leash was.
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#207311 - 08/26/2008 08:58 AM |
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Just to clarify then. Take the dog who is, by nature, a pull/drag dog.
You
(eventually, begrudgingly I would think,  what a sucky walk!)
*insist* the dog follow you by using a short lead. Will this dog eventually be conditioned to walking behind? (of course this depends on the dog)
At what point *would* this be considered a compulsion based heel training? Is there such a thing? Or is this simply ongoing restraint without teaching the dog anything...?
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Michele McAtee ]
#207312 - 08/26/2008 09:13 AM |
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I don't think the dog would eventually be conditioned to walking behind just because it's on a short leash.
I would bet that if your friend put her dog on a looser/longer leash he/she might try to forge ahead regardless.
Is the dog walking relaxed by her side on the short leash? I mean, is there any sign of her pulling at all? Im not sure what type of collar she use's but is there any tension in the leash at all, or is it simply hanging in her hand?
Im playing devil's advocate I guess.
In my mind the leash/collar should be loose and relaxed with no tension anywhere.
If you have to hold the dog in the heel by using a loose leash, i don't think it's being conditioned to stay behind....like i pointed out, if you put that same dog that seems to know to stay behing on a short leash would forge ahead if he felt there was no resistance to stop him from stepping a bit in front.
i think im repeating myself...so i'll stop here!
Don't complain....TRAIN!!! |
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Michele McAtee ]
#207314 - 08/26/2008 09:19 AM |
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Just to clarify then. Take the dog who is, by nature, a pull/drag dog.
You
(eventually, begrudgingly I would think, what a sucky walk!)
*insist* the dog follow you by using a short lead. Will this dog eventually be conditioned to walking behind? (of course this depends on the dog)
I'll lend you Cujo for a year, lemme know how that works out for you 
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Michele McAtee ]
#207316 - 08/26/2008 09:31 AM |
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Just to clarify then. Take the dog who is, by nature, a pull/drag dog...
Or is this simply ongoing restraint without teaching the dog anything...?
I think it's ongoing restraint w/out teaching the dog anything, except that walks are no fun...
Having one of those pull/drag types myself, I can attest that she would never learn to walk by my side(loose leash) using the method that your friend is using.
And Cesar doesn't really do that either does he? (restrain the dog, that is) He gives the dog a pop to refocus his attention on remaining in the spot that Cesar want him to be in, from what I recall seeing. He is always telling his clents to relax and not tense up. (another way to say 'it all travels down the leash')
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Re: Compulsion Heel?
[Re: Wendy Lefebvre ]
#207318 - 08/26/2008 09:43 AM |
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The dog who sparked this conversation walks right by her side and or behind her with no problems. She set this precendence with him as a pup, as he did not want to walk on a leash at all. SHe allowed him then to walk along side her with no leash. Then she incorporated a short lead and by setting this into play, he now walks perfectly.
Not that I am interested in doing this, but what defines a compulsion trained heel command?
oh, and PS, Mike: I have 2 dogs...remember? Oh, wait, 3 or 4 would work too!! HAA! Thanks for offering Cujo though. 
Edited by Michele McAtee (08/26/2008 09:44 AM)
Edit reason: Cujo
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