This is my first working line puppy (8wks), when I selected him I made sure to steer away from the alpha dog, I just basically looked for good nerves and good prey, when I first got him home he seemed to have neither, however now is doing great. I want to make sure to avoid any dominance problems from the beginning ie. dont let it sleep in bed (i crate train), do ob work which I have started informally, I have the kids feed him etc. What are some tell-tale signs that a dog is not in the correct pack order in the family with kids ranging from 7-11?

This isn't what you asked, but.... your comment that the puppy seemed to have NEITHER prey nor good nerves after he got home really caught my eye. I assume the pup DID show those things when he picked him, in his home environment? Otherwise you wouldn't have picked him, right? But when he came to your house, new environment, he apparently acted somewhat timid, and wasn't able to show prey becuz his unsureness overwhelmed his prey until he got comfortable. If you were looking for a dog to work in any sport, you should get this pup out to MANY different locations and re-evaluate him each time with a cold eye. Don't make excuses for him. If he shows the same timidity and lack of prey at each new place, be aware that this is a trait that is not likely to change in adulthood. A pup with a solid temperament and high prey will demonstrate those qualities EVERYWHERE.

On your original question - IF the pup did act as it sounded, chances are you will have no worries about the pup challenging you. In fact it may be a pup that needs to have his self-confidence built up, rather than worrying about keeping him under your thumb.

It seemed odd to me that the dog had great prey and temperment at the owners , i even took him out to an unfamiliar location (my van) while I was evaluating, he was fine when I first brought him home(that night), then the next day he wasnt (lethargic, not eating much, drinking abunch). I called the breeder and he said that it was probably the vaccination he gave him before he left (but offered to take him back if I was unhappy after a few days), and I also had to treat for tape worms 2 days after bringing him back. Is it possible that the puppy was just "under the weather" with the above conditions? I have since(last couple days) taken him with me everywhere for socialization purposes (other than dog parks) and he seems to be confident everywhere ... now. Am I just making excuses for him or are these viable reasons?

also, I am not really worried about him challenging me (since I am doing the ob work , etc), it is more my children.

anybody anybody?

Originally posted by Dan Lampe:
This is my first working line puppy (8wks),

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What are some tell-tale signs that a dog is not in the correct pack order in the family with kids ranging from 7-11? You have two very distinct aspects to watch over. The dog and the kids. Ages 7-11 simply do not how to read a puppies noran adult working dogs intentions.

Nor can children shut them down once the dog reacts to stimulation.

Drives can be stimed very easy by kids at play.

While my kids were growing up and now my grands kids. There is a very hard and fast rule. The working dogs are out of bounds at most times and for sure only with adult supervision.

One thing that I did do to help allow the kids enjoy dogs when the big mean daddy (me) said no was to go and get them a happy go lucky little mutt to live and play with.

Safe than sorry is a good motto in this case.

Jerry

Medication can make a normally high spirited puppy lethargic and make them sleep alot. Give him a week or two and do the puppy evaluation again, then decided weather to take him back or not.

IMO the family should work the puppy together
in OB you setting the pack order, will help in the kids being safer around this puppy as he gets older. Teach them how to respect and work with the puppy safely, and you should have less problems.

As a child & dog grow up, keep a respectful always supervised approach. By the time the dogs really able to work at 1 yrs, the boys will only be 8-12 so making the dog respect the pack order and alway supervise the group, can help avoid accidents.

I think its better to have the kids to be familar with the dog then for them to meet by accident and he (the dog) is not familar with the kids, is safer. Having trained him they won't fear him and will be able to command him to down or sit or go to his kennel. I think 8-12 yr. old that are around working dogs and know how to resepct them, are not like 5-6 yrs old who run and scream just because.

This is just my opinion I'm not a pro trainer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was always under the impression that you could have a working line dog around kids and that it was actually safer because of their sound temperment(not a fear biter), as long as they were socialized correctly and in the correct pack order (me,kids,dog). This is a dog that I want more for companion/protection than actual "work or sport".

I have read on this board (I believe from Vancamp), that the working line is better for all situations. are there people out there that have success without keeping the kids and dogs separated?

thanks for your replies, Don said "so making the dog respect the pack order..." how do I do this? by everybody doing OB work and how else?

One of the pro trainers that specialize in very hard working Malinois, very prey driven small running kids don't have much fun around them.

Not trying make this a breed thing.

But most GSD or Rotties (and other dogs) when brought up around kids (especially your kids age) with the scence and respect for the animal are safe around working dogs. Because of the dogs sound temperment and socialization.

What I've found while visiting this board there are working dogs, Real working dogs and then there sport working prey monsters. Nothing bad about either its just you don't need a dragster for a daily run to the store, select and train for your needs. Some people want a dragster for a dog.

Not to step on any toes because each dog is an individual. But I've seen owners bitten because they accidently stepped on a Dobermanns or Mals foot, whereas the GSD or my GSD will just growl at you like, like hey watch it! Some breeds are more forgiven, when accidents occur.

Sometimes my dog will come back later and step on my foot (90lbs dog), damn that hurts I see what he means. Hell get off my foot, only when I'm bare footed. Is that revenge? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />